Does anyone resonate or identify with the way of composing described in this video -
If anyone would like to participate in this journey in any way (details in the video), it would be great to hear from you. If not, hopefull, we'll have more videos coming soon. My next couple will probably be around Composers' Block and Dealing with Criticism. Any input/experiences you'd like to share with me in advance of making these would be really helpful.
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That's greawt, Rowy. (I looked at your website - i really like your String Quartet I - 3!!). I'm similar to you - not as fast (I've been working on my first Symphony for more than 3 weeks now and it's still not finished....), though right at the beginning of my composing journey, and starting much later in life than you. I began this summer at the age of 52, and so only have a small handful of pieces (9 so far). I did write some songs for my guitar in my 20s, but that seems like a completely different endeavour.
It would be interesting to know more about how your obvious intuitive preference combines with your learnt theoretical knowledge and how it is informed or influenced by it. I'm still tryijng to work this out for myself (I started a YouTube channel where I'll be exploring that question as i evolve as a composer). At this point, while I have little to know knowledge of theory, I do feel I need more awareness of the mechanics of what I'm doing and not doing in order to avoid doing more and more of a similar nature. Getting this through the formal abstract study of theory would not be possible for me, but I would like to somehow cultivate more awareness in a way that I can practically use.
You can find my pieces and a short video about how it all started for me on my profile. As you seem to work in a similar way to me, and as my music is mostly tradtional in the sense that it doesn't go for atonality (and this seems to invalidate it in the minds of many), it would be good to get your thoughts on my 4th String Quintet (the latest completed piece) - including anything you can suggest that might be a focus for improvement for me in future works. My next piece - Symphony of Bees - will also be out hopefully some time this week, though that includes more elements that might be considered "contemporary" (I'm guessing this to be the case as I've just let rip a little more, thoughI don't really know or feel comfortable with contemporary music - except George Frederick Haas). It might also be worth havingg a chat at some point in case we can find a way that you might contribute something to the channel - even if it's just a quick recorded interview.
😮 Only 3 weeks?? I've been wanting to write a symphony for 40 years and still haven't managed to write one yet! 🤣
On a more serious note, writing a symphony, at least a "good" one, whatever your standard of good may be, isn't a trivial matter. I don't think one could write one in merely 3 weeks. Unless one is Mozart. 😄 Or Beethoven. Or one of those geniuses. Actually, I don't think even Beethoven wrote any symphony in only 3 weeks.
Hi, Guy,
You asked for my thoughts on your 4th String Quintet. Since you call yourself a beginner, I thought I might need a stiff drink first—I’ve had my share of scores that required a lot of work... or a nice bonfire! But after listening to your quintet, I was very surprised. You're a beginner and started just this summer? That can't be right.
You wrote, "I have little to no knowledge of theory." Really? I can’t help but wonder what you were doing before you became a "beginner."
As for how I compose music, like I’ve mentioned before, I’m not deeply involved in the process. My thoughts always wander, yet somehow the result is never bad. It might be a primitive kind of talent, plain laziness, or maybe I tap into my subconscious—I’m not sure. It’s just instinct, I suppose. My knowledge might keep me from going off the rails, but when I check my scores after finishing, I sometimes discover surprisingly smart harmonies—way smarter than I am.
Here’s a bit of advice: harmony should result from voice-leading, not the other way around. Never start with harmony or a chord progression. Instead, go with the flow and let the voices guide you. It seems like you might already be doing that.
Three weeks for a symphony? For me, sketching out a four-part symphony would take about four days. However, it would take me several months to complete the orchestral score because I don’t particularly enjoy orchestrating. It’s like painting; I prefer the simplicity of line drawings. Paint is messy.
As for working with you in the musical field, I’m retired now. Younger and better musicians than I ever was will do a far better job.
Well, those are nice comments to read - thank you. It is true - I've never properly composed before this summer - I can't read music (at least not properly - I can see when notes are going up and down and get a vague idea of the rhythm, with a lot of attention...) and I didn't even know what the instruments of the orchestra were when I started (e.g. on my new piece, I'm using a bassoon for the first time - it's such an amazing instrument!!). BUT I did write some songs for my guitar when I was in my 20s, so I do have a little experience in that sense, though it was a very different and much simpler endeavour. That's why I resonated with how you said you worked. I actually don't know how things come out of me either. I actually get a little anxiety (very mild, but interesting) when I'm in the middle of working on something - that what's come out so far is way beyond my capabilities and so I reason that when i go back to the piece I can only ruin it with my clumsy ineptitude. It's groundless, as when you get into "the zone" it sort of takes care of itself regardless of any knowledge or ability, but I guess it's that ego thing we all struggle with....
If you're open to it (and it's fine if you're not - I realise you're not here as a resource for me....) it would be good to hear what it was that you were impressed with in the quintet. It may be that I'm not aware of what I'm doing right as well as what I've not yet learnt. It's actually very likely. And if there's any gap in there or any obvious area for development/improvement, it would be helpful to know that too.
If you're interested in hearing the Symphony of Bees (it's not a full length one-hour piece or anything like that - it's just short of 15 minutes), and perhaps even in commenting on it, it will appear along with all my other pieces some time in the next few days (hopefully) at https://heartfulhealing.co.uk/music - though it might be less your cup of tea - more experimental - not the sort of music I ever thought I'd find myself making or even tolerating, but I have found that this is what's made it's way out of me this time and it does somehow feel like a very pure expression of me. If you do, you'll find the 4th movement most traditional (the second too, though it does disintegrate at one point....). The 4th has the most work and care put into it too, though the whole piece has had more than I've put into anything else. It's also been a bit complicated, as it's my first time writing for a whole orchestra, apart from some clumsy attempts in my first couple of pieces in July when I seriously didn't have any idea what I was doing......
Apparently, you're a diamond in the rough. Everything's there—you just need more experience. More knowledge too, but that's a fine line to walk. Your talent needs room to breathe, and that won't happen if you prioritize theory too much—except for exercises, of course.
I crossed that line as a student. After finishing my studies, it took me a couple of years to find my balance again. I realized I wasn’t going to thrive as a composer of atonal music. This was during the heyday of abstract contemporary music. Back then, if you wrote tonal music—or, heaven forbid, something resembling a melody—you’d be laughed at. It took time for me to rediscover my stubborn old self. Still, thanks to my training, I ended up able to teach composition—tonal and atonal. Every cloud has its silver lining.
By all means, write contemporary music. Do whatever you like. Early years are often full of experimentation. I remember once throwing darts at a piece of sheet music I’d pinned to the wall. What can I say? I was young and stupid. :-)
What impressed me about your quintet is how you seem to have skipped a few years in your development as a composer. You wrote songs, and now this? I still have a sense that something’s missing here, but that’s okay. I’m not that curious.
Of course, I’ll listen to your symphony. A symphony of bees, you say? Lots of buzzing, I suppose? By the way, there’s no experimental music you could throw my way that I haven’t heard before. As I said, I was a young composer during the heyday of experimental music—and I survived it.
Thanks Rowy - the new track is up now at https://heartfulhealing.co.uk/track10/ with commentary - it might change your opinion of me.... (but it's actually not that contemporary - it might not even be contemporary at all). Look forward to your thoughts.
this Symphony of Bees is certainly a new departure for you. I was much struck by the opening with its quarter tones in the strings and from time to time there were very interesting effects and counterplay between the instruments-- there was something of a brooding post-romantic feel at times which had real potential. But I must say, I didn't get a feeling of anything particularly symphonic about it. A symphony has been defined as the large-scale integration of contrasts and I didn't feel the piece was going anywhere in particular or indeed that there was that much variety of mood or real thematic development. Perhaps either a) you have a completely different idea of what a symphony should be about or b) my ears are simply not attuned to what you were about here -- perfectly possible. At any rate, certainly an interesting experience.
Thanks David. It means a lot that you took the time an care to listen and comment.
of course one has to put everything in context -- as you only started a few months ago, you've already developed quite an interesting style and I'm sure you'll continue to make progress. And I doubt there was much particularly symphonic about my first two symphonies (incidentally the first two things I ever wrote were symphonies straight after each other) which stick largely to traditional forms, though this is not as a result of study but simply instinct following on from listening to so many works in the form. You've taken a very different route here.
It's a good practice to be familiar with, but there's also nothing wrong and plenty good about beginning with a chord progression or harmony and then working from/orchestrating that. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with having a clear idea and following it instead of "letting the voices guide you." Moments of strange, alchemical creation are wonderful in composing - letting them influence and extend a strong concept that you already have is, in my opinion, the sweet spot. But that said, knowing precisely what you're going to compose and then simply doing exactly that is ALSO no bad thing.
Note that I'm not saying not to do any of these things - just don't do/not do them exclusively, and perhaps keep them as part of your suite of compositional tools for when needed.
It's as confusingly restrictive a piece of advice as any I've heard.
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