Gustav Mahler - Completion of an amazing draft for a symphonic Scherzo

[Gerd Prengel]

Hi, I would be very grateful, if you could give me your thoughts on this orchestration of an uncompleted draft by Mahler for a Scherzo:

www.gerdprengel.de/mahler.pdf

www.gerdprengel.de/mahler.mp3

 

Gerd

[HS Teoh]

I feel like this deserves a live performance; the MIDI / computer rendition simply doesn't do justice to the music.

Also, the segno repeat signs near the end seem to have been omitted in the audio playback? Probably a fluke / limitation of the software. Again, this deserves a live performance IMO.

[Rowy]

 I hear mostly Beethoven and that's fine with me. I don't like Mahler :-)

[HS Teoh]

I wouldn't say I dislike Mahler, but generally his music isn't really to my tastes.  I'm much more of a fan of Beethoven, and OP being also a Beethoven fan probably wrote a lot of Beethovenian influence into this orchestration (consciously or not), which probably makes me like it more than I would have a "genuine" Mahler score. :-P

[David]

It would be useful to have some background to this. Earlier on, it reminds me mostly of Berlioz and then, as Rowy suggests, more like Beethoven. There's no resemblance to the music Mahler is known for so I can only assume it's a VERY early work or for some other reason completely atypical. That aside, it's a by no means uninteresting piece and I appreciate it being brought to our attention-- again the horrible NotePerformer string tone doesn't do it justice as HS says.

[HS Teoh]

Or it could be simply the result of the orchestrator being a big Beethoven fan, which is then reflected in his orchestration of the material.

[Gerd Prengel]

 Thank you all for your remarks! Yes, it is not sounding like a typical Mahler piece and yes, my huge love for Beethoven may indeed be mirroring in this Scherzo orchestration,  but the draft is very extensive and detailed and in itself already pretty Beethoven influenced. But according to the paper type it must be from the 1890s, probably around the time of his great 2nd symphony, so it it is not an immature youth work! I know a work from his youth and that had already more of the typical Mahler style than this later Scherzo draft... Maybe this is the reason why he abandoned this draft... Anyway I just love this Scherzo,  especially the wonderful slow Trio and I adore Mahler for that! 

Indeed there is an orchestra in South Korea that wants to perform this work in a concert in June!! And so I want to make corrections if necessary ... do you see any problems? Maybe regarding a proper balance of the instruments?

Gerd 

[David]

interesting that an orchestra wants to perform this. And I must say, I hadn't expected the work to be from the 1890's. Even Mahler's piano quartet (which I actually heard in concert recently), written around 1875-6, sounds more romantic than your piece. But I'll take your word for it that the sketches are well developed.

 

[Gerd Prengel]

I need your help! A Korean Conducter wants to perform this Mahler Scherzo based on my completion, but he did a "revision" of it with the result, that I hardly recognise my work ! Would you please give me your assessment of both versions at https://youtu.be/_EuIQu_aAHk  (first his new version and then my version at 14:20) - Thank you!

[David]

unfortunately I can't be of much help. Although I enjoy this music and it was interesting getting to know it, it doesn't sound Mahlerian (far more Beethovenian as others have said) and I can understand why no-one else has bothered to try and revive it. The Park mock-up has such appalling strings that it makes the trio unlistenable to -- they're even worse than your NotePerfomer in slower music. My impression is that his version has slightly more punchy and transparent scoring which takes it a bit further away from the classical model but it's hard to determine without a score -- and there are several theorists on this forum would would be much better placed to offer a proper critique than me if they could be bothered....

 

[Liz Atems]

I listened to both versions, and frankly, while the conductor's version is "slicker" and more late Romantic in the scoring, I actually prefer your version. Neither version sounds in the least like Mahler though, so I'm going to ask the question: Gerd, where did you find this sketch, and how can you be certain that it is indeed by Mahler? I have heard all of Mahler's extant orchestral music, I think, and I'm not aware of anything in his output that sounds remotely like this. The text captions put it circa 1890, which would be roughly contemporaneous with the sketches for the 2nd Symphony and certainly after the completion of his 1st, by which time his music was filled with his instantly recognisable "fingerprints", not limited to orchestration but also in his melodic style and his use of harmony and tonality. This has none of them, and sounds like a throwback to the sound world of Berlioz, Mendelssohn, and of course, Beethoven. The only scenario that I can imagine where it could be Mahler is if the sketch was a youthful effort, from before the time of Das Klagende Lied even, that Mahler had brought out around 1890 because he intended to do something with it.

Is there any further information regarding this work's history?

BTW Gerd, bravo on the orchestration and whatever parts you composed! There's a lot of clarity in your scoring that brings out all the voices, including a few sonorities that would be out of place in Beethoven - I don't hear those in Park's version. I enjoyed this greatly - I'm only a bit skeptical of the authorship of the original sketch.