So, I finally finished my 5th String Quintet today. The movements are as follows:
i-Allegro (0:00)
ii-Adagio (02:48)
iii-Andante (06:15)
iv-Allegro, ma non troppo (10:08)
https://soundcloud.com/guy-shahar/track-12-string-quintet-no5
I have a few questions about it that would be really helpful to me:
1 – Are the movements appropriately named?
2 – Which is the strongest and the weakest movement? (I want to enter this for a competition but I’ll need to cut or abridge at least one of the movements to make it short enough to be eligible. I have an idea which, but would like to hear others’ thoughts too)
3 – How many instances of Baroque influence do you find in the 4th movement? Where are they and how obvious would they be if you weren’t looking for them?
4 - How devastating is the MIDI programming? I know it’s bad, and I’m currently looking for a collaborator who can focus on that side of things, but how much do you feel it undermines the music itself?
(BTW - I found this forum a few weeks ago, and really liked it, but it doesn't seem anyone posts anymore. Is it still active?)
Replies
Re the forum's activity, I did some research. Since you joined:
30+ pieces have been posted. You've commented on two of them.
You've made nine posts, some on the same day, five of which are your own music. You have commented on no-one else's but your own. Your two replies to two other pieces of music represent your sole activity on the forum that isn't contained within your own posts.
I shouldn't have to explain it, but I will - forums die if users just serve themselves. I try to only post music if I've done my due diligence in responding to that of other composers, or helping with technical issues. I'm sure I don't quite manage it but I'm aware of it. You are using the forum as a resource generation portal for your own music and videos. If you want to see more activity, create some by engaging with others. Have an awareness of post saturation and don't just keep flogging your own stuff into the feed.
Also you should post scores as well as audio for a full range of potential feedback.
Your comments are insightful and helpful in their content, but the intention and tone seem to be surprisingly and unnecessarily condescending…
I would call it necessary condescension myself.
There are many reasons forums die. one principal one is when a number of the members even if it's a very small number lose the ability to speak respectfully and to comment in constructive ways rather than venting frustrations in a confrontational and aggressive way, even when the person they're talking down to is open to their message. I don't think it will be helpful to prolong this conversation any further unless the tone can change dramatically .
Guy: this forum doesn't seem very active
Me: you should reply more to other people to create activity
Guy: this is unconscionable aggression
Not very accurate to say the least. You yourself acknowledged the condescension…
You're acting as if I will be appalled at the idea I was being condescending - and as if that condescension is justification for you ignoring the valid point made. Your posts and comments are overwhelmingly concerned with your own music and needs and you seem displeased at having this pointed out. Stop deflecting, go find some music that hasn't drawn much attention, and be active. All the best.
1 – Are the movements appropriately named?
If the titles reflect your intended musical ideas, then they are appropriate. However, you need not adhere to classical-era naming conventions unless you are intentionally crafting a pastiche. There is freedom in naming that should align with the work’s creative goals.
2 – Which is the strongest and weakest movement?
To be frank, I struggled to engage with the piece as a whole, so I cannot fairly assess each movement. The work feels underdeveloped which made it difficult to discern any particular strengths. If you plan to cut or abridge a movement, I recommend revisiting the piece structurally to identify which sections truly contribute to the overall musical narrative and which do not.
3 – How many instances of Baroque influence do you find in the 4th movement? Where are they, and how obvious would they be if you weren’t looking for them?
I personally did not detect any application of Baroque principles in the 4th movement. Understanding Baroque style requires a solid grasp of music theory and counterpoint, neither of which is convincingly demonstrated here. If you are aiming for Baroque influence, I recommend studying the fundamentals of this style to better incorporate its techniques into your writing.
A baroque approach typically has a continuo as its basis, with emphasis on the bass, where the harmony is functional (goal oriented harmonic progressions) and the texture is generally polyphonic / contrapuntal, lots of imitation and so on, and your piece doesn’t really correspond to those characteristics. The setup of a string quintet wasn't really a thing yet in that era, though I'm sure if you dig deep, you might find five string setups in creative way- but they would not have the standardized form of a Classical quintet.
4 – How devastating is the MIDI programming?
The MIDI programming may be the most coherent aspect of the work. It is by no means perfect, but it doesn’t undermine the music as much as the writing itself IMO. To improve both your MIDI programming and your compositional output, focus first on developing a stronger foundation in writing for a string quintet. Relying on spontaneous improvisation without a grounding in scoring techniques results in work that lacks intention IMO. I suggest studying voice leading which is profoundly important in a setup like this.
I do find myself agreeing with Dave, in the sense I urge you to approach the space with humility. I agree with Dave in that it seems like much of what you share focuses on your own music, often with a subtle suggestion that you're musically gifted for producing these works—while also proudly expressing your disdain for music theory, which is arguably essential for writing for a setup like String Quintet.
Thank you for the honest feedback David. It seems I haven't represented myself very well in my comments about music theory. I do respect it and recognise its importance but have perhaps been too intense in how I have urged a place for intuition too and I'm deeply regretful if any impression of criticism of anyone else or of considering myself gifted or superior in some way has been created. This is far from how I think. It's true that I also haven't commented much on others posts. I do read and listen to them all but as a beginner I often don't feel qualified to say more than I liked it or didn't, which would likely not be very helpful.
I'll probably take a step back for a while. I think that if I've made a certain impression it will remain in people's minds and might be hard to transcend for some time, even if it's not reinforced in subsequent posts.
I must say that there are times when I look back with nostalgia to the previous incarnation of this forum when there were several composers who I found interesting who didn't rejoin (quite likely they didn't know about Kris' resurrection) and a greater overall level of participation, although there were a few arguments (pretty well unavoidable in any forum). I agree with both my David namesakes that everyone should as much as possible listen to and comment on works by others on the forum as well as just posting their own even if, like me, they are not for various reasons going to attempt a formal analysis (as I said previously there has been the odd attempt in the past by pedagogues on my own works which failed to understand what I was about but for the most part, comments are useful and well-informed). I can understand that Guy might be hesitant to try and offer criticism of the works of others as a relative beginner. A less common opposite fault -- I mean in general, not necessarily just on this forum -- is people who for reasons best known to themselves don't post their own works but are perfectly happy to offer advice or criticism to others.
As for the work in question here, I cannot comment as it seems to have been withdrawn from soundcloud.
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