Hi all,

Haven't posted in a while.

This piece will be my first as a PostGrad for Ensemble.  It will be rehearsed Nov. 30th.

It was a take on nesting themes within themes.  I take the first theme and do manipulations on it for the next theme to create a set of four "main" themes at different meters and lengths.  I would've done it with supercollider but am not very good at programming so I did it in Sibelius 7.

I thank any feedback and hopefully can get a good rehearsal on it.

Cheers!

Hiccup Hocket.mp3

Fractionallity-10-RR - Full Score.pdf

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  • I did but that doesn't change my mind in thinking that it's unwarranted to link musicality and race when discussing the technical aspects of a piece. Perhaps it would be better to bring up the differences between cultural traditions of different musics instead. I'm not even white but don't forget that Davis was a huge a-hole and a racist himself. Anyways, there's no need to go down that path any further. :)

  • I'll just add this:

    Hocket is not a traditional Classical Western style.

    Thanks for all your thoughts.

    Cheers mates! xx

  • AHHH! Misinformation abounds.

    First hocket is in Western art music - someone posted this whole album of DeVitry from 14th century France. You will hear hocket, polyrythmns, and a bit of a "swing" to the triple rhythm.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpaZRW9A80s

    Now that being cleared hopefully, this piece is not too hard but it requires rehearsal. Their is a pattern that is consistent where the syncopations form a regular periodic pulse, despite the mixed meters the accent tends to fall at a few regular timepoints.  With further listening I could get around to identifying it.  Now your syncopations and instrumental colors are great and you maintain some interest. Just wish their were more alternation among instruments to create contrst of texture - thin, medium, thick - later in the piece. You make a slight orchestration mistake - have all instruments going throughout most of the piece. Plus the roles don't seem to change too much which is a plus and minus for this piece, it helps make the syncopations coherent but can make the piece a little bit metronomic, for this reason I think just playing with denser and lighter textures and having them swap roles would be nice - maybe in a second piece to form a companion to it.

    And for those who consider this too arrhythmic, here is Babbit's All Set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s11zaVuqzlE

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  • Classical music did not start in the 14th century.....

    But I do appreciate the criticism.

    Sorry for jumping the gun on Western music not having hocking.  But I did say "Classical." :P :)
    Christopher Sahar said:

    AHHH! Misinformation abounds.

    First hocket is in Western art music - someone posted this whole album of DeVitry from 14th century France. You will hear hocket, polyrythmns, and a bit of a "swing" to the triple rhythm.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpaZRW9A80s

    Now that being cleared hopefully, this piece is not too hard but it requires rehearsal. Their is a pattern that is consistent where the syncopations form a regular periodic pulse, despite the mixed meters the accent tends to fall at a few regular timepoints.  With further listening I could get around to identifying it.  Now your syncopations and instrumental colors are great and you maintain some interest. Just wish their were more alternation among instruments to create contrst of texture - thin, medium, thick - later in the piece. You make a slight orchestration mistake - have all instruments going throughout most of the piece. Plus the roles don't seem to change too much which is a plus and minus for this piece, it helps make the syncopations coherent but can make the piece a little bit metronomic, for this reason I think just playing with denser and lighter textures and having them swap roles would be nice - maybe in a second piece to form a companion to it.

    And for those who consider this too arrhythmic, here is Babbit's All Set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s11zaVuqzlE

    This piece may be too difficult to play
    Hi all, Haven't posted in a while. This piece will be my first as a PostGrad for Ensemble.  It will be rehearsed Nov. 30th. It was a take on nesting…
  • No, it didn't it began EARLIER.  Classical music is often confused with the Classical style of Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven but that reflects one style of of Classical music which covers roughly the rise of modal counterpoint and codification of Gregorian Chant from about the 10th century to present. It is art music only in that it does not solely depend on the majority to be replayed and for people to continue writing it.  It always has been a very uneconomical pursuit which classical composers rectified by writing popular music sometimes - Haydn and Beethoven wrote 100s of arrangements of Scottish Folk Tunes (eg My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean a la Beethoven or Haydn) or wrote work less challenging for a greater crowd (Beethoven's Septet, Mozart wrote a series of dances, Haydn write tons of comedic operas) Any broad musical style starts to have a greater and greater range of subsets as it matures, just look at what we consider European popular music which encompassed some of the Medieval dance music, sea shanties and folk songs, 19th century salon music and light operetta to popular jazz, rock and roll and today's electronic dance music. There are crossovers - electronic dance music is influenced (as well as a good deal of experimental rock and jazz) by the classical electronic composers such as Stockhausen and Ussachecvsky from the 50' - 70's.  

    Here is an example too of classical music influenced by both new classical trends and popular music: 

    Berio's Sinfonia from the late 60's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7aKtpApxoM

    or Rzewski's Coming Together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSuuwJFw4wU

    In other words, I advise you do a more thorough exploration of what Classical Music is.  As an electronic music composer you have a great advantage of hearing the more avant garde elements of classical music over the past 40 years or so in electronic music.  But if you were to write what you just posted to an experienced classical music composer or composer with a good knowledge of music history, they would think you a little naive.  

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  • This all comes down to a matter of opinion but I will leave that alone.  As periods of music have been broken down to concise time forms of styles.  Bach ended the baroque, Beethoven ended the classical period.  It's only a definition of textbooks I reviewed in my time from my old country of the USA.  But yes Classical now tends to mean all sorts of things....  Modern, neo-classical etc.  Undebatable for truths.  Nonetheless I concede.  But will say that all has been said here in this fascinating forum tends to opinion.  I will look into all those links.  Cheers mate. :)

    P.S. after much thought I cannot concede as Bach is no way whatsoever classical and neither is gregorian chant etc...  They are absolutely different styles of music.  So I will let the debate go on.

    Christopher Sahar said:

    Yes it did.  Classical music is often confused with the Classical style of Mozart, Hadyn, Beethoven but that reflects one style of of Classical music which covers roughly the rise of modal counterpoint and codification of Grgorian Chant from about th the 10th century to present. it is art music.  Any broad musical style starts to have a greater and greater range of subsets as it matures, just look at what we consider European popular music which encompassed some of the Medieval dance music, sea shanties and folk songs, 19th century salon music and light operetta to popular jazz, rock and roll and today's electronic dance music. There are crossovers - electronic dance music is influenced (as well as a good deal of experimental rock and jazz) by the classical electronic composers such as Stockhausen and Ussachecvsky from the 50' - 70's.  

    Here is an example too of classical music influenced by both new classical trends and popular music: 

    Berio's Sinfonia from the late 60's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7aKtpApxoM

    or Rzewski's Coming Together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSuuwJFw4wU

    In other words, I advise you do a muh more thorough exploration of what Classical Music is.  As an electronic music composer you have a great advantage of hearing the more avant gard elements of classical music over the past 40 years or so.  But if you were to write what you just posted to an experienced classical music composer or composer with a good knowledge of music history, they would think you a little naive.  

    This piece may be too difficult to play
    Hi all, Haven't posted in a while. This piece will be my first as a PostGrad for Ensemble.  It will be rehearsed Nov. 30th. It was a take on nesting…
  • Oh I agree with you about viewing music history as clearly delineated, I mean some parts of Bach's St John's could have been written 125 years later and then what do you do about Gombert who shunned Monteverdi's developments and made his own fascinating contributions to late Renaissance polyphony.  The key to the definition given is commerce is not the main purpose of the music written. Nevertheless the music written for "art's' sake may be incredibly  commercial and some pop commercial music has been quite complex and or engaging and provocative.

    I think someone should just write a history of Western Music called The History of Music Written Mostly for Patronage from Elite or for Non-Commercial, Religious Reasons That Is Quite Excellent (HMWPENCRRQE book for short)

  • That just made me scream with laughter!  So true and is not to be debated.  That's all I have to say on that. :)  You're a good mate to meet. :)

  • this is a wonderful and innovative piece!  love the rhythms and interplay. cheers.

  • Thanks m finegold!

    Here's the live rehearsal:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/bidm2d9wdwlkhyr/2013-11-30%2014.50.56.mov

    BTW:

    It was played by the Ives Ensemble.
    https://www.facebook.com/ivesensemble

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