Replies

  • Thank you, Peter, for the opportunity to contribute in a way that Teoh can't! :-) ha ha ha

    Well, after reading the Portuguese text I realize your English translation was not that bad.  To me, both the Portuguese and English texts were difficult to understand, but it's because of the content, not the language.

    I will just take your Portuguese text now, and translate it to English but, rather than a literal translation I am providing an interpretive one, while hoping not to create an international diplomatic incident.

    You said:

    Thank you for your comments.  I should make something clear: my counterpoint is not achieved manually.  Instead, I use inversion patterns to create my sequences.  [Translator's question: Peter, do you mean you have automated algorithms to create music patterns?]  One of my interests is in creating large-scale patterns.  This is the reason why all of my fugues are in one piece and don't have any episodes.  Another topic with me is that of implicit harmony.  Because my system is still imperfect (though I am improving it), the harmony only comes in once in every 4 measures.  It is only the sequences which keep the piece going in a continuous flow.

    Yes, I have read analyses of Bach's counterpoint, but I must say I never appreciated the explanations.  Those are not the type of ideas that I enjoy for my counterpoint.  So even if Bach is the God of fugues I have not yet studied his style in any depth.

    My music university has been on strike for almost a year now, so I am venturing myself alone into this universe of counterpoint.  I am already finishing up a new type of polyphonic structure, where I will gain more freedom in the modulations and variations.  I will no longer be limited by the canonical octaves exposure.

    Thank you for your help, Mariza.

    You are very welcome, Peter!

    Now stepping outside from my translator role, I would like to comment (below I repeat my comments in Portuguese).  In the 5 months I've been here in the forum, I had not yet seen a composition created algorithmically.  I am quite interested in the concept, and I think a few other people might be interested, also.  My first question to you, if you don't mind, is what motivates you towards this approach, as opposed to the traditional approach of composing each piece case by case with its own individual concept driven by some combination of internal music concept and learned principles or rules?  In other words, why are you drawn to creating computer programs, or a set of automated rules, by which to create music? (Assuming I understood correctly what you are doing, Peter.)

    Eu estou aqui no Forum faz 5 meses. Nesse espaço de tempo, não vi nenhuma composição que for a criada de forma algoritmica (except a sua). Eu estou bastante interessada nesse conceito e penso que talvez outras pessoas estejam também (embora penso que não serão muitas).  A minha pergunta para si, se não se importa responder, é o que o motiva no sentido desta abordagem automatizada, em vez da abordagem tradicional de compor música caso a caso, em cada peça utilizando um conceito bem individualizado baseado numa combianação de conceitos musicais internos e princípios ou regras aprendidas?  Por outras palavras, qual é a razão pela qual se sente compelido a criar programas de computação, ou um conjunto de regras automatizadas, para criar música?  (Assumindo que entendi corretamente aquilo que o Peter está fazendo.)

    Mariza

  • Bom, eu vou responder em português ao seu comentário. Hehe

    Não, não é um algorítimo computacional o meu contraponto, ele é manual, embora é possível ser reduzido a comandos, sim.

    Embora o meu contraponto não seja computacional, eu tenho uma serie de musicas Seriais e computacionais sim. (embora so a mais recente é computacional, pois antes era manual, e somente recentemente eu programei o algorítimo no MAX) É a minha serie de Fractais. Embora sejam 3 musicas no etilo, somente duas são propriamente fracais, e somente um é Puramente um grande padrão


    Fractal de Alteração: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/fractal-de-alteracao
    Fractal de Sincronia: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/fractal-de-sincronia

    Coração de Sereia: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/coracao-de-sereia

    É respondendo a minha pergunta quanto a razão: Padrão! Cada nota, cada momento, cada instante, tem uma razão, foi gerado por um padrão, por uma logica, e dentro dessa logica, tudo tem sentido. (embora apenas o fractal de sincronia segue isso a risca, os outros 2 tem interferência ao vivo feita por mim, que eu vejo como o lado humano sendo posto junto ao grande padrão, aumentando a expressividade da peça, segundo minha visão)

    Sinto que não consegui explicar com precisão a sua pergunta, mas ja é uma resposta. Hehe.

  • Peter , i think i understand your approach.  Still, what i wrote -  is what you did do… and the formula is very simple, (not that That necessarily matters).  But this seems to me an experiment with numbers, and not so much in the way of making compositional decisions… In order to understand Bach,  one needn't refer to a book of analysis, but Look at the writing for oneself, and also to be able feel it with the fingers.  One only needs  to follow (sing) the lines(voices)  thru  a myriad of harmonic events.  

    Perhaps, though, this is not what you are interested in… 

    There are composers however, that do approach composition  from a Decidedly mathematical perspective.  

    The canon  (traditionally) is the closest to that approach.

    But look what Bartok did with the Fibonacci series… especially in his last three string quartets… Astonishing!  But also they are compellingly  passionate, graceful, elegant, … One can hear Bartok singing thru them!

    Thank you for responding Peter.

    Thank you Mariza.  

    gregorio

  • (John Cage thru the I-CHING, allowing the patterning that came up to dictate the compositional decisions for a piece. )

  • Thank you for your response, Peter.  

    Translating your post into English:

    No, my counterpoint is not the result of an automated computational algorithm, it is done manually, although it would be possible to reduce it to commands.

    Even though my counterpoint is not computational, I have done some Serial and computational music, yes.  Only the most recent one is done by automated computation, the previous ones were done manually. Only recently did I program the algorithm in MAX. Those are my "Fractals". I have 3 "fractals," though only 2 of them are really fractals and only one of those two is purely a large pattern.

    Fractal of Alteration: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/fractal-de-alteracao
    Fractal of Synchrony : https://soundcloud.com/dllman/fractal-de-sincronia

    Mermaid's Heart: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/coracao-de-sereia

    Now to answer your question as to why.  Pattern!  Each note, each moment, each instant, has a reason, was generated by a pattern, by a logic, and within that logic everything has a purpose. (Although only the Fractal of Synchrony follows those rules in a strict way, for I have edited the other two to give them a human aspect juxtaposed onto the large pattern, thereby increasing the piece's expressiveness, according to my vision.

    I feel that I did not succeed in responding fully to your question, but this is already some type of answer. He he.



    Peter P. Marques said:

    Bom, eu vou responder em português ao seu comentário. Hehe

    Não, não é um algorítimo computacional o meu contraponto, ele é manual, embora é possível ser reduzido a comandos, sim.

    Embora o meu contraponto não seja computacional, eu tenho uma serie de musicas Seriais e computacionais sim. (embora so a mais recente é computacional, pois antes era manual, e somente recentemente eu programei o algorítimo no MAX) É a minha serie de Fractais. Embora sejam 3 musicas no etilo, somente duas são propriamente fracais, e somente um é Puramente um grande padrão


    Fractal de Alteração: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/fractal-de-alteracao
    Fractal de Sincronia: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/fractal-de-sincronia

    Coração de Sereia: https://soundcloud.com/dllman/coracao-de-sereia

    É respondendo a minha pergunta quanto a razão: Padrão! Cada nota, cada momento, cada instante, tem uma razão, foi gerado por um padrão, por uma logica, e dentro dessa logica, tudo tem sentido. (embora apenas o fractal de sincronia segue isso a risca, os outros 2 tem interferência ao vivo feita por mim, que eu vejo como o lado humano sendo posto junto ao grande padrão, aumentando a expressividade da peça, segundo minha visão)

    Sinto que não consegui explicar com precisão a sua pergunta, mas ja é uma resposta. Hehe.

  • I liked this which you wrote, Gregorio:

    In order to understand Bach,  one needn't refer to a book of analysis, but Look at the writing for oneself, and also to be able feel it with the fingers.

  • Thank you :)

    Bach looms (pun) largest in my love of composition .  :)

    And thank you for translating. I feel that my message has been carried thru.

    ps… 

    Peter you mention fractals,  which are fascinating as they relate to the structure of 'life'..  That is why I mentioned Bartok, and his use of the fractal- the Fibonacci series.

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