So, I'm kind of new to this whole composing thing. I've only been doing it since early May 2009, but I truly enjoy every aspect of it. I also enjoy listening to what others imagine music to be. To me it's like a peek inside of their emotions.
I've only uploaded one piece for piano, for it is the only instrument I can play moderately well. I'm wondering if anyone could share tips about composing for piano or say something about the piece. It was composed in Finale Notepad 2009. Also, sorry the score looks so messy. I don't really know how to manipulate notepad so that I can adjust spacing between the clefs and whatnot.
Lullaby - My interpretation of a Lullaby. I've heard so many throughout my life I figured that I should give an attempt at composing one. Believe it or not, I put a lot of time and effort into this one.
I thought that this was quite a pleasant minature for the piano which evoked a gentle and reflective mood. The way that the music was arranged for the piano also seemed quite effective and I liked the way that 3 voices were implied by the insertion of true bass register notes alongside other treble notes played by the left hand.
However the score is the problem for me. C sharp major ! - never seen that key signature in my lifebefore (has anyone else on this forum I wonder ?). Db major would have been the obvious enharmonic equivalent.
Also the left hand parts (most of the piece) where the notes go well into the treble register are still written in the bass clef, even though there are too many ledger lines for even the trained professional to read (without counting lines).
In this sort of situation the norm is insert a bass clef where needed and then a treble and back again, even if the change takes place within the bar - many times over in the piece. And if that seems unsightly then maybe even think about a third stave just for the bass notes.
So in conclusion, enjoyed the music, but would have torn my hair out over the score.
Sorry just read that you did this in Finale notepad - I'm sure you would re-score it better if in a better program. But at least change the alien key signature !
Most Circle of 5th diagrams have F# major at the six o'clock position directly below C major at 12. Some do show C sharp major as an enharmonic key, but is my understanding that the general rule is to stop at F# major on most wheels. You won't find a music theory exam in the UK that goes beyond F sharp major, and if it does, then the music is expressed as Db major.
I'd like to know the opinion of others on this, but for me, the key signature of C# major is much better understood in the form of Db major, a far less uncommon key for the piano.
Does anyone know of any examples of pieces with 7 sharps in the piano repertoire ?
Anne Goodwin said:
I enjoyed this lullaby as well. However, the key that you've got the piece written in doesn't put me out as it seems to have for Adrian. lol. When you have a piece with 7 sharps or flats, it's easy. EVERYTHING is sharp or flat so it's easy to remember. Unlike, for example, B major where you have to remember which 5 notes are sharp and which 2 are not! Also, C# major is actually on the official Circle of 5th Wheel so it is an officially correct key signature. If you had stepped off that wheel, then perhaps we would have truly had something controversial to discuss. I do agree that in terms of score layout, there may be room for improvement but that's not something one needs to worry about for the moment.
Yes, definitely a pleasant piece. I especially enjoyed the two sequences of harmonic runs; they were a nice 'cascading' effect. My only quibble is that it is a lullaby and perhaps it has a couple of things in it that are 'unsoothing' such as the sudden momentary stop (i.e. the rest in measure 15) that interrupts the flow of the melody and dynamics (such as the forte in measure 41) that are a bit too much. Also, recheck that none of the chords are too 'heavy'. I'm noticing 4 note chords in the score too.
Piano Piece
So, I'm kind of new to this whole composing thing. I've only been doing it since early May 2009, but I truly enjoy every aspect of it. I also enjoy l…
Well if you've found at least one piece, then I suppose you're right - it is possible to have this key. Whether it's a good choice above Db major though is another issue, but I'm willing to admit that it's a matter of opinion.
One final thought is Chopin's Raindrop prelude.
The outer sections are in Db major and the middle section is in C# minor. It would have made more sense for chopin to have just used the tonic major and then the tonic minor, but he must have had a reason to use Db major rather than C# major - he maybe thought that C# major was just too obscure.
Why didn't he use the tonic minor of Db major in the middle (instead of the enharmonic C# minor) ?
Well, Db minor would have been even more obsure. Db minor would have required the same flats as F flat major - which is an ultra-silly key - as it's exactly the same as E major. So that's why the middle had to be C# minor.
So why did he choose Db major instead of C# major for the outer sections is the question we're left asking. (as a piece that moves from the tonic major to tonic minor and back is more obvious a choice than the enharmonic switch for the middle from flat key to sharp key and back again).
I would hazard a guess that Chopin did not favour C# major as a key choice for the outer sections. It was (and is) too unfamiliar to pianists and nearly all other musicians.
Anne Goodwin said:
I really don't like to admit defeat but the only piece I can easily find that is in C# major is from J.S. Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, Prelude and Fugue in C# Major, BWV 848. It is also difficult to find pieces in the keys of C flat major, A# minor and A flat minor. So, interesting. I'm not so sure about pieces with 7 sharps but I know I've played pieces, or parts of pieces, that have at least 6 if not 7 flats. I wonder what difference it makes to the 'mood' of a piece to transpose it into the enharmonic key? One would think none whatsoever but you never know maybe . . .
Sorry my response is kind of late. Been rather busy lately.
I'm thinking I should change the key to Db major. It only will take me a few seconds really to fix and won't seem so strange. I was thinking of rewriting the entire thing by hand (for finale notepad cannot do what I need it to do) so the score will become somewhat readable. I'll separate the top voice and the middle voice/triplets each with their own treble clef staff and the bottom voice with a bass clef staff just as Adrian had suggested.
Anne, I agree about the stops, but I'm not sure how I want to approach the situation. My gut tells me not to add extra notes, for I kind of want the pause, but I think the pause is just a second too long. Maybe add a tiny quiet 8th note? Just enough to be heard as well as giving a pause but a slightly shorter pause. I'll also fix some of the dynamic issues so it wont be over the top in areas it shouldn't be. As for the 4 note chords, I really don't want to remove them....I'm sorry :(. I don't want to sound like an arrogant guy who thinks his way is the only way, but that's probably one of my favorite parts...If you have anymore suggestions I could use as an alternate so the 4 note chords didn't bother you I would be more than happy to listen.
Thanks for the comments Adrian and Anne, much appreciated!!!
May I interrupt, to say, there is no serious need to this discussion of keys, since we live after the age of Bach's welltempered clavier?
Welltempered tuning allows us to settle with a simple conclusion: it's a "reading" issue...
In the age of atonality, key signatures do not play such a major role as they used to, since NO(!) key signature is needed to write (e.g.) chromatic or other "systematic" schemes.
In modern compositions, you even have a Piece called "Symphony in E"... relating to the atonality of that piece...
Just can't see two (obviously) knowledgable musicians discussing... about such things.. ... ... ... etc. ...
Ario.
Anne Goodwin said:
I enjoyed this lullaby as well. However, the key that you've got the piece written in doesn't put me out as it seems to have for Adrian. lol. When you have a piece with 7 sharps or flats, it's easy. EVERYTHING is sharp or flat so it's easy to remember. Unlike, for example, B major where you have to remember which 5 notes are sharp and which 2 are not! Also, C# major is actually on the official Circle of 5th Wheel so it is an officially correct key signature. If you had stepped off that wheel, then perhaps we would have truly had something controversial to discuss. I do agree that in terms of score layout, there may be room for improvement but that's not something one needs to worry about for the moment. Yes, definitely a pleasant piece. I especially enjoyed the two sequences of harmonic runs; they were a nice 'cascading' effect. My only quibble is that it is a lullaby and perhaps it has a couple of things in it that are 'unsoothing' such as the sudden momentary stop (i.e. the rest in measure 15) that interrupts the flow of the melody and dynamics (such as the forte in measure 41) that are a bit too much. Also, recheck that none of the chords are too 'heavy'. I'm noticing 4 note chords in the score too.
SCHEMES.IN | Tough Domains
SCHEMES.IN is available for purchase. Get in touch to discuss the possibilities!
you weren't too argumentative at all. It's an interesting discussion that we can all benefit from. It also colours our percepton as players - as we tend to to think of a flat key as "darker" whereas this situation proves that both are identical - sharp or flat.
and in terms of should we dispense with keys completely...well, yes in atonal modern music, but in tonal modern music there is still a complelling case for stating a key signature if the music by and large stays within that key - as this piece indeed does.
Anne Goodwin said:
You're right Ario. It's a TO-MAY-TO, TO-MAH-TO thing. Anyway, I'm going to take a break from forum activities for the next little while. I get too carried away sometimes. Apologies to Adrian if I was too argumentative. :) And, best of luck with the piece Eric.
Piano Piece
So, I'm kind of new to this whole composing thing. I've only been doing it since early May 2009, but I truly enjoy every aspect of it. I also enjoy l…
I listened to this and thought it was very pretty, and was most impressed with a few things in this piece. When I read the first comment, I was a little surprised, but then again, there are those who only follow the rules, and cannot see beyond them, and those who take chances and move music forward. I applaud your willingness to take chances.
Music has rules for academics who need to be able to deconstruct what they are hearing. For me, I can't help but wonder if such people actually "hear" music, as hearing is what music is about, not deconstruction. Perhaps the sheet music is hard for some to read, I cannot speak to that, but I think what I heard was quite wonderful, rules or no rules.
I also do not think this was atonal. There are many forms of music and many different ways of hearing.
Replies
However the score is the problem for me. C sharp major ! - never seen that key signature in my life before (has anyone else on this forum I wonder ?). Db major would have been the obvious enharmonic equivalent.
Also the left hand parts (most of the piece) where the notes go well into the treble register are still written in the bass clef, even though there are too many ledger lines for even the trained professional to read (without counting lines).
In this sort of situation the norm is insert a bass clef where needed and then a treble and back again, even if the change takes place within the bar - many times over in the piece. And if that seems unsightly then maybe even think about a third stave just for the bass notes.
So in conclusion, enjoyed the music, but would have torn my hair out over the score.
Sorry just read that you did this in Finale notepad - I'm sure you would re-score it better if in a better program. But at least change the alien key signature !
I'd like to know the opinion of others on this, but for me, the key signature of C# major is much better understood in the form of Db major, a far less uncommon key for the piano.
Does anyone know of any examples of pieces with 7 sharps in the piano repertoire ?
Anne Goodwin said:
One final thought is Chopin's Raindrop prelude.
The outer sections are in Db major and the middle section is in C# minor. It would have made more sense for chopin to have just used the tonic major and then the tonic minor, but he must have had a reason to use Db major rather than C# major - he maybe thought that C# major was just too obscure.
Why didn't he use the tonic minor of Db major in the middle (instead of the enharmonic C# minor) ?
Well, Db minor would have been even more obsure. Db minor would have required the same flats as F flat major - which is an ultra-silly key - as it's exactly the same as E major. So that's why the middle had to be C# minor.
So why did he choose Db major instead of C# major for the outer sections is the question we're left asking. (as a piece that moves from the tonic major to tonic minor and back is more obvious a choice than the enharmonic switch for the middle from flat key to sharp key and back again).
I would hazard a guess that Chopin did not favour C# major as a key choice for the outer sections. It was (and is) too unfamiliar to pianists and nearly all other musicians.
Anne Goodwin said:
I'm thinking I should change the key to Db major. It only will take me a few seconds really to fix and won't seem so strange. I was thinking of rewriting the entire thing by hand (for finale notepad cannot do what I need it to do) so the score will become somewhat readable. I'll separate the top voice and the middle voice/triplets each with their own treble clef staff and the bottom voice with a bass clef staff just as Adrian had suggested.
Anne, I agree about the stops, but I'm not sure how I want to approach the situation. My gut tells me not to add extra notes, for I kind of want the pause, but I think the pause is just a second too long. Maybe add a tiny quiet 8th note? Just enough to be heard as well as giving a pause but a slightly shorter pause. I'll also fix some of the dynamic issues so it wont be over the top in areas it shouldn't be. As for the 4 note chords, I really don't want to remove them....I'm sorry :(. I don't want to sound like an arrogant guy who thinks his way is the only way, but that's probably one of my favorite parts...If you have anymore suggestions I could use as an alternate so the 4 note chords didn't bother you I would be more than happy to listen.
Thanks for the comments Adrian and Anne, much appreciated!!!
Welltempered tuning allows us to settle with a simple conclusion: it's a "reading" issue...
In the age of atonality, key signatures do not play such a major role as they used to, since NO(!) key signature is needed to write (e.g.) chromatic or other "systematic" schemes.
In modern compositions, you even have a Piece called "Symphony in E"... relating to the atonality of that piece...
Just can't see two (obviously) knowledgable musicians discussing... about such things.. ... ... ... etc. ...
Ario.
Anne Goodwin said:
and in terms of should we dispense with keys completely...well, yes in atonal modern music, but in tonal modern music there is still a complelling case for stating a key signature if the music by and large stays within that key - as this piece indeed does.
Anne Goodwin said:
Music has rules for academics who need to be able to deconstruct what they are hearing. For me, I can't help but wonder if such people actually "hear" music, as hearing is what music is about, not deconstruction. Perhaps the sheet music is hard for some to read, I cannot speak to that, but I think what I heard was quite wonderful, rules or no rules.
I also do not think this was atonal. There are many forms of music and many different ways of hearing.
Kudos
Shad