Midi, Vst and the whole S***

Just recently, I got the tip, to use DAW's, which would edit the midi output of my finale scores... Problem: Either the stuff is merely editable (in Sonar and Samplitude), or there is no playback... I'm a little troubled about this and wish to achieve better sound quality, without having to put up with "entering" midi notes... The midi files are created involving a VST (Edirol orchestral) - might that be the problem? I've checked the internet for standard "tutorials" etc. ... no luck! Could anyone give me a good link to some tips on the internet, or give me a short lecture, on how to edit the midi files created by finale? (in this case version 2009). Thanks for reading, and in advance for any help.... Ario

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  • if you want a real live sound you will have to spend a LOT of money, LASS, VSL, Symphobia, etc, and machines to support them, and you will need to spend probably a few years learning how to work with samples. I have been working non stop with samples since 2003 and I am still learning more and getting closer to a "real" sound. This is a VERY LONG HAUL, so be prepared for it ;-)

    Ario said:
    I see, you guys are critical about using Edirol's Orchestral VSTi, which leads me to a question... which product would you use?
    Miroslav Philharmonic? Or...East West quantum (etc.) ? Or the vienna symphonic library? I've noticed some people using one called "wallander", which has extra VSTs for single instruments...

    Again a summary: Which VST is most recommendable?

    I'd prefer one, where a MIDI file sounds a little bit more acceptable, for less editing in Midi "style". As a musician, I definately prefer writng a few more "accelerandos" than turning knobs in samplitude!

    I'd like realistic sounds - Dreaming of making a CD with lots of music of my own, which I could make a little money of (and skipping the story of finding the right musicians... at least for now).

    Greetz, Ario.

    P.s.: Thanks again for all the input, appreciate it alot!
    Midi, Vst and the whole S***
    Just recently, I got the tip, to use DAW's, which would edit the midi output of my finale scores... Problem: Either the stuff is merely editable (in…
  • This is very cool but its still very limited. It can split apart chords of a simple instrument, but there is no way it can pull apart an orchestra. MIDI and really understanding the depths of your libraries, the CC controllers and how to use them, and probably sequencing and not using finale to make a good performance. Like I said, long haul ;-)

    Ario said:
    Anybody heard of melodyne's DNA (Direct Note Access)?

    In a TV-Programme, I saw a piano being recorded, then the sound technician would simply have the chords split into each single not at a press of a button (or anything near to that...). You can practically edit an audiotrack, as if it was all midi...

    I was wondering, if this would be a motivation to start editing one's .wav files rather than midi!?!?!?
    Or is it not of any advantage in your (professional's) opinion?

    I thought it suits the topic here... I'd be too curious to know what you think


    Ario.
    Midi, Vst and the whole S***
    Just recently, I got the tip, to use DAW's, which would edit the midi output of my finale scores... Problem: Either the stuff is merely editable (in…
  • Ray Kemp said:
    I have it and it is great

    Ario said:
    Anybody heard of melodyne's DNA (Direct Note Access)? In a TV-Programme, I saw a piano being recorded, then the sound technician would simply have the chords split into each single not at a press of a button (or anything near to that...). You can practically edit an audiotrack, as if it was all midi...

    I was wondering, if this would be a motivation to start editing one's .wav files rather than midi!?!?!?
    Or is it not of any advantage in your (professional's) opinion?

    I thought it suits the topic here... I'd be too curious to know what you think


    Ario.

    Ray,

    I've followed the development of this product from Melodyne. While the video on their website looks fascinating, I'm wondering does it work as advertised?

    I use their plug-in in Pro Tools, but mainly for pitch correction on vocal tracks. Within some limitations, that seems to work really well.
    Midi, Vst and the whole S***
    Just recently, I got the tip, to use DAW's, which would edit the midi output of my finale scores... Problem: Either the stuff is merely editable (in…
  • AndrewG said:
    Ario, I do not know DNA, but trying to edit WAV rather than MIDI is like trying to change a porridge, which is already prepared, instead of changing the recipe before boiling.



    That's a great analogy!
    Midi, Vst and the whole S***
    Just recently, I got the tip, to use DAW's, which would edit the midi output of my finale scores... Problem: Either the stuff is merely editable (in…
  • Ray, Thanks. You confirmed what I thought was the case. I had not heard of Liquid before, though. Looks remarkably like Melodyne!
  • Hi Ario-

    I had heard of this product and waited with great interest to see its much touted, and advertised polyphonic audio to midi capabilities...something we're ALL aware of the great difficulties with..

    So I d'led the demo, but this audio to midi option was greyed out.
    I emailed support and they were very nice, and told me to send a small audio file, and they would convert it to midi.

    Bottom line..it was HORRIBLE..they didn't do the entire small section I sent (it was the opening of Ferneyhough's "Lemma Icon Epigram", a solo piano work, and not so complicated), and what they did was really disappointing.

    They said they didnt take the time to tweak it, but it was really very bad, and as I said very disappointing, as its an EXCELLENT product in other respects.

    Thanks Bob

    Ario said:
    Anybody heard of melodyne's DNA (Direct Note Access)?
    In a TV-Programme, I saw a piano being recorded, then the sound technician would simply have the chords split into each single not at a press of a button (or anything near to that...). You can practically edit an audiotrack, as if it was all midi...
    I was wondering, if this would be a motivation to start editing one's .wav files rather than midi!?!?!?
    Or is it not of any advantage in your (professional's) opinion?

    I thought it suits the topic here... I'd be too curious to know what you think


    Ario.
    Midi, Vst and the whole S***
    Just recently, I got the tip, to use DAW's, which would edit the midi output of my finale scores... Problem: Either the stuff is merely editable (in…
  • I have a feeling that this DNA is a patented scam, where pseudo-engineers show-off something for music businessmen, who do not understand what is possible and what is impossible to do with audio. The notes, extracted from the audio-recorded chords, will inevitably suffer from wrong or undefined harmonics, thus spoiling the sound of the original music instrument. This is indeed an attempt to off-boil the porridge.

    Why, actually, extract notes from audio-recorded accords, while one can record separate notes, which is done by all creators of sampled instruments, who, in addition, carefully keep the velocity and articulation info. These DNA people will come to the same problems, already addressed by the creators of sampled instruments, e.g. the necessity to record many notes of different pitches instead of modifying the pitch of a single recorded note.

    Maybe, however, they create a special mixer with piano-roll-like editing features, rather than a chord-analizer.
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