In a piece that I am writing right now I am wanting to add a quote to each of the movements. One of the movements is called "Fallen Heroes," and I found this quote. Do you agree or disagree with what the author is saying. I am debating it in my head right now.
"It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism."
Johan Huizinga
Replies
I disagree with the quote.
It's at best a half truth. What about the heroes who survive, who go on to more heroism despite physical injuries? Are they less heroic because they have survived? And how does one become a hero in the first place? By living the life of a hero, devotion to the mission, dedication to his superiors and peers, bravery in the face of adversity. Heroes are not born, or fall into heroism. It isn't thrust upon them by circumstances, I'm reading the book, Ike. Was Eisenhower a hero because he won WWII? In this biography you can see that he was a hero nearly every day of his life leading up to the final victory.
In every account I've ever read by someone who survived something like charging the hill to take the enemy position, they claim that they were just doing what had to be done. They claim that the real heroes were the ones who died along side them. They made the ultimate sacrifice, while he did not. I question those who say they are going to go out and do heroic things. Someone who sets out to right some wrong does so not for the glory, but because it must be done.
A man who was born to be an artist and abdicates from following his dreams, to take on a meaningless job behind a bank counter in which he has to kiss his boss's behind for 25 years, because that's the job that feeds his children to adult age and will one day provide them the conditions for following their dreams, knowing all along that one day they will not respect him because of his apparent lack of ideals and self-respect, and there will be no speeches at his funeral. But that his children will be well fed, healthy and happy and have a future before them. What is that anonymous mediocre nobody?
Socrates Arvanitakis said:
Forgive me, I cannot see immediately how and to what extend what I wrote relates to what you wrote, but since you quote me, according to what I wrote and in my view, your man is also a kind of hero because he chooses spiritual death to the eventuality of the loss of dignity and progress for his children.
Self-sacrifice for others' benefit is extremely heroic in my opinion.
Hi Dave,
Not for a moment 9/11 cross my mind. Talking about it though, I don’t consider the act of the attackers as heroism. I consider it as an act of fanatic lunacy.
The man in Manfred's post is a heroic example to me of self-sacrifice for the reasons I've explained.
The "Thermopylae" poem by C. P. Cavafy is perhaps the most illustrative reference to heroism known to me justifying what I wrote above, because it does not really refer to the actual battle of Thermopylae but to all battles of humanity and how they should be fought, where the heroes chose loss of their lives to loss of their human dignity and values, (the knowledge of their death is certain to them, but still they stay and fight). The poem, although translated badly in my opinion, and especially the third stanza, clarifies that certainty of death.
You can have a read of its text and some elementary analysis here:
https://brushheadmusings.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/thermopylae-a-poe...
And another example again from Greek history, taken place in 1803. The Suicide of the Souliot women and children at the prospect of being raped and violated in the hands of an invading force.
Historical wikipedia artice on the souliotes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souliotes
Zalongo Suicidal dance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_of_Zalongo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souliotes#/media/File:The_Souliot_Wom...
Is there anything unclear in my use of the words "loss of human dignity"? If there is sorry, I cannot explain it any better.
Dave, the kind of heroism that I meant is illustrated in the poem by Cavafi, and in the suicide of the Souliot women, not in the actual battles either in Thermopylae or in Souli. I hope we agree on that. As for the Spartans, I agree with you, as trained soldiers, did what their orders said, but they still did it as magnificent human beings imo. There is, I believe, a big difference though, between them, and the kind of heroes that Cavafy refers to in his third stanza of "Thermopylae". IN general I agree that a conversation on these matters (and more so on matters to which you refer i.e. WW1) would be very interesting, if we could argue that is a matter affecting music. To me it is, but I will not go into that now.
It's not about 911 anymore, but more about how individuals deal with grief. Just like the composition itself, the meaning developed also. Thank you for remembering though, Dave!