Hello all. This is a piece I recently wrote. I'd love some feedback. (Be nice - I'm new here =) )

[Emily Miller Bond]

This was composed on Logic using English horn, violins, harp and other instruments.  I used a scale from a Satie Gnossiene (No. 1)

Lonesome%20Underground.mp3

[Chris Alpiar]

b is flat so cadence of one to flat seven back to one to flat two, or making the flat seven a major seven. Root motion based on the scale modes

[Emily Miller Bond]

Chris, I am very happy you feel a connection to my music, and I look forward to further discussions and also to listening to your work.  I did have a question about your suggestions:   what you mean by I bVII I bii I, etc.?  Are you talking about chords or rhythms? I mean what is the "b?" Just not something I'm familiar with.

 

Doug, thanks for your input.  It's interesting, because I think it's an age-old dilemma that artists deal with:  creativity (at least for me) is very childlike - just a kid in the sandbox - and even the editing and refining feels kind of fun, so I guess I'm not too self-critical these days.  I find that others' criticism doesn't bother me too much either, but obviously I can get touchy because there has been nastiness in the past, and I am only too aware of how too much criticism, too soon, can just kill creativity, esp. if there is the weight of a lot of internal criticism, as you said.  I find that I work better if I can amend a piece by asking myself what WANTS to happen at a particular spot, and it doesn't even feel negative, really.  

[Doug Lauber]

I agree that the Music Dissection forum is the way to go. I think 'Be nice..' sort of discourages an in-depth critique, because we proceed as if walking carefully on egg shells. So what if someone is overly harsh? Consider the source. Take the good advice and throw out the bad. I realize that any good artist needs to be very self-critical as a means for producing high-quality material. That makes it difficult to receive criticism from the outside because it adds to the weight of critical negativity that we already have internally. We must realize that although it can feel sour, a negative critique is a way towards improvements, while euphoric praise does not help us as much. For those critiquing, I recommend making points that are helpful- pluses AND minuses. ie These areas need improvement and these other areas are fantastic.

[Chris Alpiar]

One thing to consider, and quite possibly you already have, is to dig deeper into Indian music in genal, like check out e form of the raga, and how they make use of rhythmic modes as opposed to harmonic modes. Since indian music is generally based on a single harmonic mode or a very specific cadence (like I bVII I bii I, i vii i bii, or similar) and does not incorporate more complex harmony like western music, maybe the development needs to look towards the hyper complex rhythmic modes which you actually allude to with your 10/8 or 10/something time changes. I am not an expert in the Indian rhythmic modes or syllables but it's all sequences of fives layered on top of larger groups of fives, something I want to study in depth at some point. And I don't know what it means to you or if it pulls you someplace but I think somewhere in that direction might lie some very cool means of really developing these very cool ideas you have here. (btw since music is such a subjective thing, as all art is, I rarely if ever comment in detail unless I really enjoy something and think I might be able to share some thoughts that might be helpful, with someone I feel a connection to their music, so please take my injections as flattery and not dismissive ;-)

[Emily Miller Bond]

Thanks for your intelligent feedback.  You verbalized issues I had with the piece, namely, I had trouble developing the Indian scale - anything I tried just sounded not-right. I like to modulate, try different keys, etc., but I wasn't able to get it to work that way with this scale.   So I went to another theme, which you say is too similar without being enough similar.  Well, I've wondered about that, as I have other pieces with very contrasted themes that nag at me because I lost the mood of the first part.  However, you were right about there being no connection to the B section, and it's those transitions that really challenge me.  Hence my cop-out:  I just stop and start a new theme.  Although I didn't mind how it sounded, really.

 

As for sound, yes, I am at that point where I'm considering hiring real players, especially with strings, as it's especially hard to get a good sound with sampled strings.  

 

I recognize that the word "nice" in my original posting would be loaded, especially on a site such as this.  Perhaps I should have said "considerate."  However, for me, words such as "coddle" are also loaded.  I am an experienced educator and I will state quite adamantly that good feedback never ever needs to be harsh, and if it is, it probably isn't helpful.  I see the word "coddle" as being a way for the critiquing person to not have to think about how they are putting their ideas across, or where they're coming from for that matter.  That said, honest feedback (such as you gave me) does not feel harsh to me, but helpful, so perhaps we're arguing over moot points here. 

[Chris Alpiar]

Spirit offend forum is a lame iPad auto correction typo lol, 'spirit of the forum' is correct, my apologies.

[Chris Alpiar]

Well it is your issue, or not. While they are not required by physics to be polar opposites, they often are. Generally when someone says (and I say this after adminng this forum for 4 years) "be nice I'm new here" it implies you would prefer to be coddled than given truthful (if potentially harsh) critique. Which is why we have the music dissection forum with a discussion thread there explaining our policy is to not post your music unless you are ready for it to be ripped apart. If you have not read my post on the spirit offend forum I highly urge you to here

http://composersforum.ning.com/forum/topics/the-spirit-of-the-forum

As for this piece, I have nothing harsh to say. I enjoyed the 10/8 sections and the dectuplets used within them, quite alluring. I'm not crazy about the Indian scale riffing in the intro and coda as they are strongly pulling my ear to want to explore that scale in more depth as leitmotif and to continue either in that genre or to move to something entirely contrasting like Tchaikovsky might in the nutcracker. Not to sound like that but rather meaning more concise use of the idea, building of it as a segment and then building from it or else very clearly moving to the new idea. It just feels a little too similar without being enough similar, with the distinctive Indian type of mode in mind and how powerful of a sound it is. It's excellent music, both sections, so I commend you. But I think someone on your level could take this another step and go from cool music to masterpiece. The production isn't bad, quite good enough to focus on the music as opposed to the sounds, but it feels too obviously sampled instruments to my ear to feel ready for release. Is there any possibility of bringing in one or two woodwind players to record live on top? If you got say a flute and a clarinet player to overdub you will lose any sense that this is sequenced. Or if the intent is to play it live I can't wait to hear it!

[Emily Miller Bond]

My issue is, I do not think good feedback and being kind are polar opposites. That said, I am definitely interested in helpful feedback.

[Chris Alpiar]

Have no fear then, we actively curb nasty people who are simply being mean here. We get most of em, and please let us admins know if someone is getting out of hand!

[Emily Miller Bond]

I'm fine with feedback that is courteous, I'm not interested in nastiness disguised as serious critique.