Opinions on best examples of songs Nelson Riddle arranged.

[Fritz Souder]

I would like to hear some of the opinions of my fellow members concerning songs arranged and orchestrated by Nelson Riddle (who is my favorite). Which one (or ones) do you admire the most and for what reasons (instrument choices in different song sections, builds and emotional contrasts for example)? 

[Tony Wakefield]

If I`m not mistaken, Sinatra`s `Come Fly with Me` could be up there.

[Fritz Souder]

Hello Anthony,

Well, "Come Fly With Me" is a favorite of mine but that was arranged by Billy May who to me was good at upbeat tunes and was a brass madman as far as his arranging style. That was one of his finest. If a listener is feeling down and out that one would amazingly perk them up and put a hop in their step. The swirling effect in the very beginning (strings and woodwinds?) gives the impression of a plane taking off and you soar from there. Nelson Riddle was more of an empathetic type, it seems to me his arrangements come from studying the lyric and looking for the peak of emotion in it and then starting there and building everything else leading up to that point and then traveling down the other side of it to what I've read in his biography was the hardest thing he did...come up with an ending to quietly shut the door on the song. I don't expect too many people to reply to this discussion, I know you're all busy with your own works in progress but I thought I might get some opinions to mull over. All have a good day and nice weekend.

[Fritz Souder]

Hey Ray,

Everybody had a chuckle when I played Sinatra's version of "Old MacDonald" at my mother-in-laws memorial service just last month after the minister spoke and everybody was stuffing their faces with some Maryland country cooking. She loved Frank and everybody was at her farm and I had always joked about that song being about her. She was probably looking down at us all and laughing herself.
The "Summer Wind" is a very interesting arrangement with that underlying organ in the beginning and the stabbing, swinging call and response of the saxes and horns to Franks vocal. Nelson always kept things fresh and was always messing around with interesting and sometimes odd combinations of instruments but he always seemed to pull it off. And Ray I agree with you, that tune does have a pungent "Italiano" feel...makes me want to order a pizza. The thing I like most about Nelson's arrangements is that you're listening to the singing of the lyric by whomever (Nat, Frank etc.) and it's taking you along it's little path and he has all these surprises every few words that don't get in the way but enhance and put you into a trance.

[Fritz Souder]

Ray,

Yes, I agree it's the choices an arranger makes in the orchestration of a tune. I've listened and read in a few books how arrangers approach a lyric. There's a chapter in the copy of Don Sebesky's "The Contemporary Arranger" that I copied and carry around with me called "The Importance of the Lyric". He hits the nail right on the head in saying that "the background should in no way compete with the singer for the listeners attention", that is the toughest part. I understand what you're saying about choices "it's like you have all these horse's by the reins and you need to be selective on which ones your going to cut loose?. A good arranger with taste is worth his weight in gold. Now, I am raw student of arranging, I've been reading, listening and trying to understand how these fellas try to enhance the singers voice which is after all the most beautiful instrument of all. I mostly for now consider myself a songwriter who aspires to arrange his own songs. I have one particular song that I wrote with a co-writer Craig McKee and we had arranger Peter LeVine (Florida) work his magic on. I think he did a nice job on it and I've studied the elements he used and I'm very impressed with it. If you'll send an email to me at [e-mail] I'll email you an mp3 file and the lyric of this copyrighted song for you to listen to and comment on.

[Fritz Souder]

Ditto for me Ray :-) . I think the big thing is how empathetic an arrangers personality. Riddle was raised by a domineering mother who was from an aristocratic background and from reading about her interaction with him it appears she mentally beat him into an empathetic soul. When he read a lyric and played the melody over and over again he apparently came up with an opinion of what the song was about and also developed his counter melodies and accented musical effects that weaved the web that when the singer sang the song listeners could be entranced by it and captured. That I think is the essence of a great vocal arranger. In my opinion an instrumental piece can affect you by the main melody, counter melodies, orchestration, arranging, rises and falls and surprises but when you have the human voice, and a lyric with words that invoke some type feeling about a subject and work off that, and you are successful that to me is primo.

[Fredrick zinos]

Route 66.. OK i'm showing my age, but the evocative yet elegant simplicity, the expansiveness of the theme (listen to the range required of the violinists), the sense of adventure is all there, and at least for me, it still works after all these years.

Yeah Route 66, I guess there was no interstate 80 back then and gas was about $.23/gallon. Cigarettes were safe but natural food was dangerous, black and white TV was just fine and who needs cable? The three channels we received came in pretty good after sundown, and, living large, we paid extra for a princess phone because it had a lighted dial.

[Fritz Souder]

Hello Frederick,

Yes, I really like that one too. It gives one the impression of driving down the road passing telephone poles, buildings, cars, trucks and going around curves and up and down hills and the like. Everything builds off the repeating piano figures. Now, to change the subject you sound like a guy with a very eclectic background and an interesting view of the world. Glad to make your acquaintance. If you don't mind I'd like to add you to my friends list Frederico, if that's OK.

[Fredrick zinos]

Id' be honored Fritz.. One can never have too many friends and as for me, I have friends I haven't even used yet.

Fritz Souder said:

Hello Frederick,

Yes, I really like that one too. It gives one the impression of driving down the road passing telephone poles, buildings, cars, trucks and going around curves and up and down hills and the like. Everything builds off the repeating piano figures. Now, to change the subject you sound like a guy with a very eclectic background and an interesting view of the world. Glad to make your acquaintance. If you don't mind I'd like to add you to my friends list Frederico, if that's OK.

[Bo Ayars]

Hi - Two come to mind: "I've Got You Under My Skin" with the trombones and low reeds begin a build to the big trombone solo. Also, at the end of that solo, the unison sax figures against the brass. The 2nd is "On A Clear Day"; use of bucket mutes, odd chord progressions in the beginning and that "Italiano" organ that "book-ends" the piece. I'm also a fan of "Old Man River", both of the use of "creative" chords in the string accompaniment and with Sinatra's vocal ability in the word, "...jail" All of this is, of course, my own opinion, but Riddle is one of the hallmarks of American pop arrangers.

[Fritz Souder]

Bo Ayars said:

Hi - Two come to mind: "I've Got You Under My Skin" with the trombones and low reeds begin a build to the big trombone solo. Also, at the end of that solo, the unison sax figures against the brass. The 2nd is "On A Clear Day"; use of bucket mutes, odd chord progressions in the beginning and that "Italiano" organ that "book-ends" the piece. I'm also a fan of "Old Man River", both of the use of "creative" chords in the string accompaniment and with Sinatra's vocal ability in the word, "...jail" All of this is, of course, my own opinion, but Riddle is one of the hallmarks of American pop arrangers.

[Fritz Souder]

Fritz Souder said:

Bo Ayars said:

Hi - Two come to mind: "I've Got You Under My Skin" with the trombones and low reeds begin a build to the big trombone solo. Also, at the end of that solo, the unison sax figures against the brass. The 2nd is "On A Clear Day"; use of bucket mutes, odd chord progressions in the beginning and that "Italiano" organ that "book-ends" the piece. I'm also a fan of "Old Man River", both of the use of "creative" chords in the string accompaniment and with Sinatra's vocal ability in the word, "...jail" All of this is, of course, my own opinion, but Riddle is one of the hallmarks of American pop arrangers.

[Fritz Souder]

Bo,

You really broke down and explained those arrangements nicely. Nelson really knew how to enhance a vocal performance without being intrusive and his use of dynamics was an education in itself. I write songs and I've been working on listening to the arrangements of some of the great arrangers and Nelson's work just seemed to really seemed to catch my ear. Have you done much arranging using string sections?

Bo Ayars said:

Hi - Two come to mind: "I've Got You Under My Skin" with the trombones and low reeds begin a build to the big trombone solo. Also, at the end of that solo, the unison sax figures against the brass. The 2nd is "On A Clear Day"; use of bucket mutes, odd chord progressions in the beginning and that "Italiano" organ that "book-ends" the piece. I'm also a fan of "Old Man River", both of the use of "creative" chords in the string accompaniment and with Sinatra's vocal ability in the word, "...jail" All of this is, of course, my own opinion, but Riddle is one of the hallmarks of American pop arrangers.