HELP! Do I need a DAW as well as Finale?

[Catherine Heckford-Dickinson]

Hi folks,

           I'm pretty much a newcomer to the composing world and I've been composing in Finale for the last year. I have Kontakt 3, Ethno World 4, all the Garritan instrument packages and Tapspace percussion.

 

For some of my work I'm getting great results, however in the case of composition where I want to depict a lot of action, such as war, I can't seem to get enough vigour into individual notes (on playback) where I want it. I've tried using expressions etc such as ffff but that still doesn't depict say, how vigourous a violin bow stroke should be.

 

Other problems I have include occasional slightly flat notes on violins, (when played in conjunction with other instruments) and squeeks and hmmms at certain note frequencies when certain instruments are playing in combination.

 

Would I be right in thinking that I need a DAW to iron out these problems when I have done the bulk of my work in Finale? If so a haven't a clue which to go for! Can anyone else reccommend a DAW for use in conjunction with Finale for orchestral, world  and eclectic soundtracks?

 

Thanks,

           Cathy.

[Chris Alpiar]

Finale = quick listen back of your composition, its a tool to make scores and parts for live performance
DAW = create a MIDI performance using samples and/or synths

If you expect to have a finished product ready for public consumption without a live performance, yes you absolutely need a DAW with a great computer(s) and a large investment in sample libraries (like VSL, LASS, etc) and minimally convolution reverb (like altiverb or the VSL one) and probably a suite of effects plugins (like the Vienna Suite or some Izotope mastering tools, Waves bundle, etc)

This is not a quick or cheap endeavor, so be prepared! ;-)

[Catherine Heckford-Dickinson]

By heck that was quick thank you very much!

I'm quite relieved someone else thinks I need a DAW actually! The makers of Finale tend to brag a lot, that their software is used for oscar winning pieces, yet I've had the feeling for long enough that they're not telling me everything about what it can't do! Some of their example pieces on their website have generally better sound quality than what I can always achieve. Having said that some pieces sound good played back with Finale so I'll look at concentrating on these compostitions first and perhaps getting them published before buying another computer etc.

I'll look at those other things you mentioned.

Well I don't spend a lot on other things, I must be one of the few women who hates high street shopping!

Do you (or anyone) have have any recommendations regarding DAWS? Don't worry I won't hold you to them LOL! So far I know that I don't want a 'loop intensive' one as I don't generally write that sort of music. Is there anything that's orientated towards the orchestral/eclectic musician?

Thanks again,
Cathy

[Jim Hughes]

I think your best option would be Cubase 5. It includes all the plugins (including convolution reverb) that you would need for now. It has a score editor that reads expressions just like finale. You can do all the editing that you mentioned before, and it is very good if you plan on scoring to picture any time in the future. You can import video and sync your music directly with the video with great precision. Also their string library ($99) isn't too shabby either. Vienna samples will set you back at least a few thousand dollars but you should check out the sample libraries from EastWest Samples. They are much cheaper and much better than the Steinberg Strings that com with Cubase.

[Chris Alpiar]

I would recommend Digital Performer or Logic if you have a Mac and are planning to do orchestral type of music. Cubase is cool too, tho I tend to only use it for making electronic music (since the VST stuff is so tight there). Dont waste your time with Pro Tools. You might also go with SONAR (Cakewalk) for the PC, it is quite good and feature filled.

Mostly all these DAWs can do most things, just some handle certain things slightly better. I like DP for its depth of midi editing tools, but Logic has a much easier to use librarian for your sounds. Cubase is the inventor of VST and VST Instruments, so while they have generally excellent tools they are particularly good with how they interface into plugins and sounds, lots of easy to use presets

[Magdalena Obert]

I've been using Logic Pro. I have SONAR as well and tried Pro Tools as well as others. At first I hated Logic because It seemed complicated, but after I settled down with it, I think it's great. Now SONAR I've yet to get settled down with it. I'm trying to decide which is better for me. But for now, I always go back to Logic.

[Sandy Herrault]

I am in quite the same position. I just started taking compositions from Sibelius to Cubase, and using Kontakt 4 for instrumentation. I can't say I have the best results possible but I think it is pretty good. I'll upload a link to a trailer in a few weeks. Any thoughts on this combination from more experienced composers?

[Doug Lauber]

For PC. I love Sonar. It has great tools, and an excellent interface. Sonar X1b Producer works great.

[Sandy Herrault]

I also have Protools, but when I tried to do things that I find easy in Cubase I was frustrated.  So, I plan to learn protools soon.  Don't really know if there is any advantage, but for now, this is what I own.

[Chris Alpiar]

Yea while they have made monumental motions forward in the MIDI aspect of ProTools, its still not up to snuff for scoring compared to logic or DP IMO. I keep pro tools in the studio, used to keep an MBOX around just so I could have pro tools but now with PT9 Native, there is no need, I can use my nice MOTU hardware with it. ProTools is still (somehow) the most commonly used software for tracking audio out there, but most film productions involve a. a notation program like Finale or Sibelius, either for composer to write with in a chain involving live orchestra, or for composer to write in as pre-production to the DAW layer (mockup of the mockup), b. a DAW to build up mockups and score to cues and hits, and to create punches and streamers in the video if its going to have a live orchestra, c. protools for tracking live instruments and mixing and d. a SaDIE or similar system for mastering with mastering hardware like Crane Song gear

[Sandy Herrault]

Thanks for the reply.  Here's a very basic question.  Can music go from Protools or Cubase into film and be at an acceptable level or do you need to master it with Sadie and Crane?  I haven't gotten that far yet, as you can tell.  I'm just going from Sibelius to Protools or Cubase.

[Chris Alpiar]

I think it depends on the level of the film. For an indie, and ultra low budget projects for certain you can master your own stuff with plugins, but you should at least master stuff on some level, even on demos, collaborations, etc. It changes the impact of the music dramatically. So it is necessary for us as modern composers to get at least elementary knowledge of mastering and what it does. And then anything with a budget should (imo) go to a mastering engineer who has this type of hardware; and more importantly, with real mastering knowledge and ears, a specialist. The subtle things these guys do are just amazing. And then they prepare the glass master including adding the ISRC codes and that glass master goes to the replication plant or as final files for whatever media it is part of.

[Sandy Herrault]

Fascinating!  Since I'm working on a low budget indie film, what do you think the best course should be?  Is there a mastering software that is inexpensive and I can learn relatively easily? Thanks in advance, I appreciate it.