Garriton Personal Orchestra questions

[Jamie Klenetsky]

I'm thinking about getting GPO. All my VST plugins are free, and I have nothing that really sounds REAL.

So I have a couple of questions - can this be used with Sibelius? Finale 09? AND Ableton Live? (That last one is really important!)

And can it be used with Vista, does anyone know? (I have the Business edition.)

And finally, is it good :)

[Chris Alpiar]

Most all sound libraries come in these plugin formats: VST (most every PC and many Mac systems use or support VST), AU (Mac Audio Units for most every Mac system), RTAS (ProTools LE and non-HD format), and to a lesser degree MAS (Motu format) and TDM (ProTools HD format). What you need to do is to read the manuals of your programs and see what plugin formats they support. I dont know Ableton so no way for me to answer you.

Some sound libraries are made specifically to be used with Finale, I am pretty sure GPO is one of them and EWQLSO has been built to work well with finale.

Ultimately if you want *real* sounding mix, you wont want to be using a notation program: you are going to have to dig deep and invest in the best sound libraries as well as a DAW where you will work with your midi as a sequence and not a score and this is as time consuming or more so than composing is. If money is not an issue and you want your stuff to REALLY sound live, then its time for a serious investment in Vienna Symphonic Library. The entry level library from them is around $1200 bucks and goes up to around $20k, other stuff that is top notch that works well with the VSL stuff is the Project SAM libraries (symphobia, SAM Brass, True Strike), Wallander instruments (for very nice sounding woodwinds especially). You will also need a DAW, for PC I recommend Cubase 5 or Sonar. And finally you will need a *good* convolution reverb to make orchestra samples come to life. Some DAWs come with a stock one, but I have not found one yet that sounds as good as Altiverb.

The Garritan stuff IMO is pretty good, but not top of the line, and while they have setups to make it easy for you to get a decent digital realization from your score directly from your notation program, it sounds kind of fake. Its what I would call ProSumer Ware (somewhere in between professional and consumer level).

So if you just want to use you notation program and have it sound a little more real than using the stock sounds with Finale or Sibelius, then GPO or EWQLSO are either a good choice. If you want to make your stuff sounds *real* as in passable that it is live real, then you have a major investment and lots of learning ahead. If you decide its time to really dig in let me know on or off list and I can help you make good choices based on your budget and expectation

[Jamie Klenetsky]

Thanks for the info! I'm definitely not ready to spend that kind of money (don't even have 20k, heh). This was more for say, sending recordings for competitions, or adding an orchestral sound to an electronic piece that I'd write in Ableton. It'd probably be good for that?

[Aaron Marshall]

GPO can be used with Finale. If I remember correctly I think it's one of the VSTi's designed specifically for Finale in mind, or there was a Finale compatible preset.

You should be fine using it in Ableton. Vista shouldn't matter.

Is it good? I personally do not like it all that much, but I'm sure it could be manipulated to make some interesting tunes.

[Danilo Chompor]

For the money and for what you want, GPO is brilliant. Very very cheap and good honest sounds. I know what you mean about the free plugins. They sound a little bit the same as instruments wrote on a Yamaha mini-keyboard or something same.

What Chris say is right too. Too make sound even realer, must you get a sequencer, but sequencers today have score interface, so you can use as a notation tool (not for printing though). But with sequencer like Sonar or Digital Performer, you have more control to manipulate the sounds AFTER you have put notes on the score. So, say, to start. Write all notes of an oboe solo on the score interface of a sequencer using the oboe from GPO. Then you can actually have a chart at bottom of score to actually draw how you want the volume to go, not just louder and softer, but also for the accents and expression for more real sound. And then you can flick up another chart for changing pitchbend and then changing velocity and modulation (vibrato) and everything like that.

For the sequencers, I know you will say, but they are expensive, $800 for Cubase 5 etc etc. But is not true (well it is and it isn't). You don't need the normal sequencers. You can write the whole of Beethoven's 5th symphony on Cubase Essential 4 which is only about $170. Here is link:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/49410/

So if you have good ears, and $350, and you get very skillfulled with producing, you can write the whole of a Beethoven symphony with Cubase Essential 4 and GPO. For the reverb, you can use the one in Cubase until you can aford a separate programme. Altiverb is the best in the world but the price is size of a house. There is cheaper ones.

Good luck,

Danny

[John Banting]

Hi Jamie. Yes, GPO is great value for money and doesn't sound $19,900 cheaper than Vienna - which I don't find to be as amazing as a lot of people do...it's very much a personal choice though.

To be honest, the piano alone is worth the $100.00 you'll spend. One note of advice though: To get the best out of GPO, it does take a bit of tinkering so, if like me, you start out with very little knowledge of traditional orchestration then GPO also serves as a useful learning tool!

Good luck

JB

[Chris Alpiar]

I think if you haven't found the absolutely amazing value of Vienna Intruments then I really think you havent explored its capabilities with things like the velocity x-fade and other super advanced features only found with the new vsl stuff. And you can get started around $1200 - actually you can get in the door cheaper but i think the 1200 version with the extended package is really worth it

[Danilo Chompor]

No-one needs ALL of VSL ($20,000). If you buy complete, you will have overlap. The cube at half the price will do everything.

But is true. VSL is the cream of the cream. Only 'samplemodelling' and 'projectsam' come close. But NOT Symphobia.

[James Semple]

Different strokes for different folks. Symphobia is not designed for concert pieces, it doesn't have the range of articulations of VSL

BUT

it definitely has some of the best actual string sounds of any sample library ever.

[Chris Alpiar]

Danilo is correct that you dont need ALL of the Vienna Instruments. While the cube wont do everything, its pretty all-encompassing, and even stepping in the door with Special Edition + extended (which is what I currently have on top of my old VSL full pro edition (which cost $6000 yet they offered a really crappy upgrade pricing to Vienna Instruments - something I will always hate those damn Austrians for :P ) is going to help any project sound really freaking amazing!

I agree also that symphobia is pretty awesome! Yea its definately NOT for concert music or art music, but for folks who have super tight deadlines for projects paying less and less each year, its a great tool to make quick and great sounds. After a few recent purchases for my studio it is next on my list

[Danilo Chompor]

But with Symphobia, it can only be used for cinematic music that doesn't need score. Because it will be hard to score it. When you play strings on it, it doesn't tell WHICH strings.

And the very very very worse thing is the pre-sets. They all sound absolutely awesome and amazing and difficult to resist. But if you use them, you are in big lots of trouble because if you use them for film, the director/producer might hear it and say "Jamie, this music is so good, that we are going to stretch the budget and get an orchestra in, can you fetch me the score and parts in by Wednesday?" Then it's..... "Oh shit!"

[Adrian Allan]

So how do you use symphobia in conjunction with a score, or is that an impossible task ?

[Danilo Chompor]

You can't. If you watch the demo, you will see that. The strings are spread across the keyboard from Double Bass to Violins, but you know not what the instruments are because everyone knows that cellos and violins can play some same notes, overlap I mean.

With the presets, it is very impossible task. And if you think that EWQLSO Gold is very cinematic sound, then Symphobia is even more, with not intimacy.