Choice of Key

[Nalinikanth Josyabhatla]

Greetings!

I never received a convincing reply on the choices of keys composers made in their compositions. The best example would be Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, why is it in C# Minor rather than C Minor? The tonics differ just by a semitone. Also, in the equal temparment system of tuning, the Chord qualities will not vary.

Explanations, opinions and theories are welcome.

Thanks & Regds...

[H. A.]

In Beethoven's time the temperament was still not as it is today and so that is why he would have chosen C# minor instead of C minor. Today, we tune to a=440 but it was not so in Beethoven's day and so the quality of the notes would makd a difference in the key chosen. Even now, some orchestras and ensembles tune to a higher frequency which would make a difference if you are composing for piano and orchestra. This becomes a serious issue when dealing with vocal music as well.
Chord qualities may be the same across the board with modern western tuning, but each note still has its ows specific vibration and in a way still lends itself to helping a key having a slightly different sensation than another. Another reason for being specific in choosing keys on the piano will also have to do with what octaves are being used and what effect they created during specific harmonic/melodic moments.

[Marius Amado-Alves]

I know this piece well (in practice). I think the choice of key here had a lot to do with fingering. Lots of black keys. Easier to play (contrary to popular belief). Specially the 3rd movement, but the most known slow 1st movement too.

I chose my keys based on playability only, including the possibilities of the instruments. For example my The Dream, first keyed on Dm, because of the bass mainly, but then for the vocals I had to change it to Gm, and now I'm considering rekeying it to F#m, because of a last part that was hard to play on the organ in Bbm and this way it will be on Am (easier) (*), and also because this way the eletric guitar can play a high pitched major tone (D#) which is needed for the end (it's on the last fret of most guitars). Another piece I keyed so that it could feature the highest pitch of the bass.

(*) This seems contrary to the proposition above that black keys are easier to play. Well, they are easier for the Moonlight Sonata but not for The Dream. It depends on the actual patterns. The Sonata is more arpeggios, the Dream is more scales.

Also, the "same" piece for different occupations often gets keyed differently. There's a piece in my catalogue, Eros, that for orchestra is in E, while for string quartet is in C. If you think that this is because of the lowest pitch of the strings in each occupation you are absolutely right :-)

And of course the keys songs are actually played on change all the time to fit different vocalists ranges across people or ages. Even in classical music (opera) this happens.

[Marius Amado-Alves]

Nah, it's the fingering.

One croma up or down does not change the "sensation", except for people with absolute pitch ears or whatever they call that condition...

[Nalinikanth Josyabhatla]

Archibald: I agree with Marius in saying that "it does not change the feel, except for people with absolute pitch capabilities".

Marius: Are you saying that if we do not consider Playability, Instrument/ Vocal ranges, Key does not matter?

[Marius Amado-Alves]

Basically yes. But mind that an octave is a big thing, so for some tunes maybe rekeying to a very distant base may alter the feel a bit. "Normal" people don't have absolute ear but have an approximate one, perhaps in connection with their vocal range or some other fisiological acoustic factor.

[H. A.]

Its not surptisin that you do agree as most people would. Many minimilst composers adhered to the practice of observing the mathmatical vibration of the individual note and some modern composers even one that I have had some classes with does as well to a degree. Playability is not too much of a big deal if you are composing for professional pianist or if you have high pianistic skills yourself. Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata can easily be played in C minor with no fingering issues. The second movemnt in Db major wouldn't be anymore challenging in any other key and the same goes for the final movement.

If we take a look at a piece that is more about fingering then we can take Chopin's "Etude on the Black Keys" in Gb Major (Op.10 #5) we might decided on throwing in the argument of fingering as is sometimes done when discussin this piece. But the fingering argument is not always valid since professional pianist are trained to play well in all keys....or at least they should be. There are fingering techniques to handle all musical situations.

But as I mentioned the issue of choosing a ke on the piano does not revolve only around chord qualities but also the division of octaves will make a difference and what part of the music makes use of a specific octave in the music willl make a difference.

But each is free to take his/her own stance on the matter and how it shapes our way of thinking in composition.

[Nalinikanth Josyabhatla]

Yes, I agree. Some Tunes/Themes sound good at certain pitch ranges. I think % of people having an absoulte ear will be very very less (much less than 1%?). Even the vocal range has a fundamental frequency. The Base note people touch may always correspond to a particular Note (like C3, D3, E4, G4 etc.) Also the more we hear of a particular theme in a tonic, our ear will get accustomed to identify it. Basically, Absolute pitch can be taught? I think there was a big debate on this topic earlier in this forum too:-)

[Anne Goodwin]

I don't have time at this very minute to say much but I want to interject into this conversation that key choice is very KEY at least in terms of how composers of the past approached their work. I'm trying to find the exact quote that I once read where it was either Beethoven or Mozart who said that each and every key has its own character, its own mood, its own feel, and so on. One cannot just randomly take any key and begin to compose just anything. I believe a lot of thought goes into the choice of key, certainly by composers who take their work seriously, who are skilled and whose work gets noticed. I will come back into this conversation later.

[Nalinikanth Josyabhatla]

Good, the discussion is becoming more interesting and intense. I'm correct in my original, opening statement even now "I never received a convincing reply on the choices of keys composers made in their compositions" :-)

Yes, I heard about Beethoven using Eb Major signifying Courage/Triumph/Victory/Heroism.
His Eroica (written for Napolean) and the Emperor Piano Concerto are examples.

I agree with Archibald: Playabity (ease) in Keys may not be a factor for deciding the Key.

We all know that Music in different Octaves give different feel. We are discussing more on Keys / Music in an Ocatve, more specifically, close to each other.

[Marius Amado-Alves]

I am aware of this myth about the "character, mood" of each key. It is myth, anedotical, non-scientific, even if Bethoveen himself believed it, it does not stand a change under rational scrutiny, maybe Bethoveen had absolute earing.

[Marius Amado-Alves]

I agree this Sonata is not particularly special regarding fingering.

I'd have to restudy the 3rd movement to be sure, but maybe there is a playability factor there, I seem to remember it going very up and very down in pitch and I thing Bethoveen's era pianos were limited to a an F1-E6 range or some such, so if a piece needed that interval across the piece it had to be keyed accordingly.

I am certain other pieces are keyed for fingering. Guitar also. On the keyboard, I recall this piece by Tony Banks of Genesis, the overture to Watcher of the Skies (on a 1970's album called Foxtrot I think), which features intervals of minor 10th that can only be played in certain positions on the black keys e.g. A#4-C#5 (by normal hands). I remember a classical piece, I think Beethoven's, that requires a single finger (thumb) play two keys (white) two cromas apart. And so on, and so on.

It's a case-by-case affair. There are cases of fingering, of instrumental range, of combinations thereof, and even of that mythical nature of the key :-)

A lot of student pieces are key in C, Am, eventually G, Em, because of the null or low number of black keys, for pedagogical purposes (assuming a pedagogy that assumes white keys are more pedagogical of course).

[Marius Amado-Alves]

A frequency is a frequency is a frequency.
Each frequency per se has nothing special.
And with the well tempered intonation that we all use since Bach (note this includes Beethoven) there is not even nothing special about an interval per se. C/G equates C#/G# *exactly*.

Now, a relation with external physical factors, yes, might exist. Albeit frankly I doubt it. That is, I doubt that there is something in the world or in people that "resonates" at a certain, specific, universal, frequency, in the sound range. The only *universal* frequencies I can think of are those of ray-particles emmited by the orbitals of elemental atoms, as per the quantic theory of matter, but these frequencies are too high, in the order of billion hertz.

Now, of course with non-well tempered intonations, the key is a factor of music quality. But that's not the case with Beethoven, Chopin, or Amado-Alves :-)