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In the "Harmony and the Rudiments of Music Theory" group there is a thread about "2nd minor" where jumped out some issues about the use of "modes" in the music (and in the church's music, particularly).

Modes not only had a very important role in music still XVI century, but they have in our own music in our times. Jazz and blues are good examples.

So, if you please, we can discuss about those famous "modes". Let me say, that is not just what and how to use them in modern composition, but to understand "historically informed" the basis, theory and cientifically based knowledge of these modes, in order to get a better point of view about their posibilities in modern composing.

I think this could be a good thread to begin this group. So, any question to start up?

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I think that all of us have something to teach and a lot to learn. In the middle-age theory of music, there was a very important point what was called "pathos" (greek for something like "feelings"), so each mode was associated to specific "pathos" in order to consider which of them could better represent the feeling required for a determined musical work. Modes was used for the music of the church (RCC) in its different forms: Antiphonae, gradualia, responsorii, sequentiae, etc., and the key for choosing the mode was the text. If the text was joyfull they used, f. ex. mode V (lydian) but if the text was sad they used, f.ex. too, mode II (hypodorian). I must add that in music church literature the modes are numbered (roman numbers) instead of named, because the greek names used somewhere are not quite correct.

So, there was no any mode used more often than other because of personal preferences but because the feeling expressed by the text.

The differences among the modes and that what contribute to give some "pathos" to the music, are consecuences of the particular distribution of their intervals (tones and halftones) along the octave (something like our "scale").

I will post examples of each mode (I hope to find good ones of all of them) and if you wish we could analyze and discuss the use of them in the works posted. So, let me put one of the most beautiful (to me, of course) melodies of plainchant: It is the "Ave mundi spes Maria" which is on mode VII (Mixolydian):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MbDqc3x97k

This plainchant (performed by the monks of Santo Domingo de Silos' abbey) shows clearly the use of an "angelical" mode for a charming/hopefull text, which begins with something like this:

"Hail, Mary, world's hope! Hail, tender and pious one; hail to you, full of grace!"

If you put the notes in some "midi" device, the music loose its charm, but working together, music and text (and a wonderful performance, like the monks' ) the plainchant becomes alive and we can discover a masterpiece from the XII century.
But there is one more constituent of modal early music not mentioned, which further differentiates the modes - temperament. True, in equal temperament, the modes are distinguished merely by a particular sequence of tones and semitones, and are therefore transposable. In quarter-comma mean tone, they are not, so Dorian from D works, but not from D flat. The crux here is that in mean tone, there are no true enharmonics, ie, one must choose to have either C# or D flat, but not both. You might pass one off for the other in a rapid melodic passage, but not in a triad. To get a true sense of the modes historically, we must experience them in the prevailing temperaments of their time.
Hello to All,
My background is as a music scholar (I play and compose by ear) so I may be entirely wrong in what I am posting. However, here goes. The Appalachian dulcimer is tuned in modes. So is the hurdy gurdy. The six traditional modes of the dulcimer are Ionian (equivalent to a major scale), Aeolian (melodic minor), Mixolydian, Dorian, Lydian, Phrygian. The dulcimer is distinguished by its drones, always two, an octave and fifth below tonic. The hurdy gurdy is tuned the same way, but the hurdy gurdy does have programable tangents that can be adjusted to any degree, that is half tones, or any increment less....so, indeed there is a way to get 'in between' the notes, so to speak. Since the dulcimer was 'discovered' by people outside of the mountains, who ALMOST NEVER play it in the traditional way but insist on 'chording' which makes it a different instrument ENTIRELY, few people really know what a traditional Appalachian dulcimer sounds like. Too bad, because it's purely intoxicating! Rhythmic, droning, and wonderful!
I'm glad you found the appropriate place to discuss this Martha, because I was just pondering where to place it. The clavichord too has tangents which can be bent to a certain temperament. First let me explain that clavichords are either fretted (more than one tangent to a string) or unfretted (only one tangent & key per string). An unfretted, like the one shown on my page, can be tuned to any temperament via tuning pins alone. The fretted requires bending tangents. That's precisely why I use my unfretted for mean tone.

Quarter comma mean tone is primarily based of pure thirds. In equal temperament, the thirds are way off - horribly out of tune. One becomes very aware the more mean tone is employed and heard. The fundamental (pun intended) problem with mean tone is that there are semitones, but they are not truly enharmonic, as in equal temperament, thus one must choose between having Aflat (tuned perfect to C nat) or Gsharp (tuned perfect to E nat). But with a properly designed instrument, or electronics, it seems to me that there could be practical use for a mean tone, 17 tone (minimum) scale C,C#,Db,D,D#,Eb, etc. Whether C# or Db is chosen depends on the triadic context. A mean tone temperament which would be transposable, nearly to the extent of equal temperament. There's a picture I've uploaded on my page, a conceptual drawing of such a keyboard. I think with our present technology, it should be quite feasible (maybe even easy) to do this with electronic music.
Many good points and info Jan. I'll have to get into this tomorrow, as I'm exhausted. I can tell you that traditional Indian music, the Raga, sits on my ear as comfortably as early western modal counterpoint. I followed Nishat Khan adamantly as a younger person. I don't know if he's even living presently. I attended his performances at every conceivable opportunity, and consider his music a formative influence.
Hi Anne! - Something weird happening with the threading here. Are we supposed to manually delete the citation below? Sorry, I'm a forum-idiot.

Quarter comma mean tone refers to the manner in which the comma is distributed, in this case, across (4) intervals each of a fifth. To derive the frequency any equal temperament interval above a given tone, you would multiply its frequency by 2 raised to the exponential (i/12). The resulting frequencies come tantalizingly close to simple ratios for the concords. In fact, the stronger the concord. the simpler the ratio. So the fifth, in equal temperament has a frequency 1.4983 time the fundamental's, but it's 'just', or perfect tuning is 1.5, or 3/2. In fact the only just tunings which occur in equal temperament are at the octave. If you extrapolate a just tuning of fifths until you reach an octave, like C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, C# ... C, you'll find that you don't arrive at an octave - there's an "error", and that's the comma with which all of these historical tuning systems sought to contend.

Quarter comma mean tone essential sacrifices the fifths, which are slightly flat (one, the 'wolf', is virtually unbearable, but sometimes used - personally, I like it), to achieve just thirds. Everyone has their own methods of tuning mean tone; here's mine:
Tune C perfect (beatless) to E at a tenth. Alternately tune the fifths, C-G, G-D, D-A, A-E, slightly flat so that they beat similarly, but without altering C or E. Remember that higher frequencies will beat faster when equally out of tune. These are the four distributions of error which give quarter comma its name. When tuning just thirds, always tune either in inversion, as a sixth, or at the tenth, as it makes the beating much more discernible. The rest is easy. Tune perfectly F to A, B to G, Bb to D, Eb to G, C# to A, F# to D, G# to E. This is probably the most common enharmonic configuration and results in the wolf occurring between G# and Eb. You can of course experiment with Ab to C, or other variations, as I do, often with startling results, depend on the particular composition. Hope this helps Anne.

EA Goodwin said:
What do you mean by 'quarter-comma'? And are you saying there is a slight difference in tone color in quarter-comma mean tone so that C# and D flat are not actually identically-sounding notes (i.e.tones)? Lastly, are there recordings available so that one can listen to the SAME piece but in these different modes/temperaments in order to hear the differentiation?
Sorry Anne, I forgot to answer one of your questions - Yes! Do yourself a favour and check out Davitt Moroney, a self taught virginalist, one of the best I've ever heard. He did a double CD of Byrd's Pavans and Galliardes about 15 - 20 years ago in quarter comma mean tone. Still my favorite CD(s) ever, period. You have got to hear this guy play.

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