What Should I get Next for my Composing?

[Benton Anderson]

Why hello there!

 

Seeing as how I never posted an intro thread here, I thought I'd take this initial opportunity to just say hi the community at large before I get into the meat of my question, so... hi, yeah.

 

Allow me to provide a little background before I go rampaging with my words. I'm an amateur composer in the classical and film scoring (somewhat) styles who works on music whenever I'm afforded the time to do so. It's a passion I have, and that's about it - no money involved, just the love of my music.

 

I currently have a very modest lineup of doodads and widgets with which to work on my music, and I must say it has treated me well for a beginner, but now that I'm beginning to expand my abilities more, well, I simply need more stuff.

 

Right now I'm sitting on Finale 2009 as my "DAW", I recently purchased Kontakt 4 and know a fair bit about how to manipulate the program now, and I have a Yamaha DGX-220 76 key keyboard - basically a rehearsal keyboard with zero MIDI controls except for a pitch bend, whoopee. If you aren't laughing at my pitiful lineup yet, then I encourage you to read just a tad further.

 

Right now I'm looking into expanding further into the realm of orchestral, acoustic music in general, but I'm a bit confused as to where I should go next in terms of stuff. I've been tossing around a few ideas, especially since Get-Free-Stuff-mas is mere days away, and I've narrowed down my choices to a few things. Basically, I can either upgrade my computer into a production machine, expand my trusty Finale into a true DAW, upgrade my MIDI keyboard, or buy some more sampled libraries.

 

Right now I have some piddly four year old computer - it was like 700 bucks back in the day... yeah, not too hot at the moment to say the least. It's pretty limiting inside Finale with Kontakt loaded up. I can run maybe 8 instruments from the stock library before I get some serious popping and crackling artifacts going on, and that's without convolution reverb on all the instruments. This is probably where I should upgrade first, but onto the other possibilities.

 

Finale for me has served me well for a few years now, but it's time for it to go. It simply limits me too much in what I can do especially now that I have more than just the built-in GPO to fiddle with. After learning about the wonders of controlling your VST plugins through things such as CCs and learning that Finale can't do squat to change them efficiently (or change them at all) I really think I should move on from this and get a new DAW.

 

Another option, although less appealing, would be to upgrade my keyboard into something more production friendly. I'm not too sure what I would need though, and I don't think getting another full blown keyboard would do my cramped space any good, so I was also considering getting a MIDI control thing that lacks keys that can sit alongside my keyboard, but I have absolutely zero knowledge on where to go for such a thing, and the choices out there seem quite limited.

 

My last option, and probably least realistic, would be to go get some better sample libraries. I was considering going out and getting LASS Lite because I simply adore good strings, but then I would be terribly limited due to my inferior computer, DAW, and keyboard. And I should note that I haven't been looking much beyond string libraries, but my gut tells me that I'll be needing some new winds/percussion sooner rather than later, so any tips on the best bang-for-your-buck non-string orchestral libraries would be helpful too.

 

Some input from the professionals around this fine forum would be GREATLY appreciated. Any tidbit of personal experience, tips, advice on any topic here would aid me greatly in my buying decisions.

 

I should also note that the one topic I would like the most input on would be the DAW. Should I go Cubase? Sonar? (with their new X1 thing) - should I get the full version or the middle of the road version? Or should I forego that for a while and get FL (although I've heard it's utter junk for anything but teen-techno stuff)? An in-depth discussion on what to get here would truly make my holiday season.

 

And that's my essay. =P If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them promptly. Thanks for reading.

 

 

[Doug Lauber]

What are your goals? Do you want to compose for a virtual orchestra and create orchestral mock-ups? It's tough to take an immediate quantum leap to that polished demo. Maybe you should take a few baby steps first? For example, at the very least, I would go to eBay and find a 76 or 88 key keyboard that does all of the MIDI stuff- CC#s etc. You can probably get an Alesis Quadrasynth for 300 or 400 bucks. You can use that to play with your current sample libraries, but you might need a fairly powerful computer to play a large number of instruments. You can probably cut corners by getting the cheaper version of a DAW like Sonar or Cubase- they have basic versions, but if you can afford it, get their top of the line version. You see- it's a matter of how much you're willing to spend. Again, if your goal is to produce a polished mock-up of your orchestral compositions, I would begin with the idea of starting fairly small and building your tool box every year as you acquire more and better tools. Join the TV and FIlm Composers group. Take a look at the tools they are using.

[Benton Anderson]

Hmm, yes that is one noteworthy aspect I left out. I plan on making polished mock ups exclusively, and I have zero plans nor passion to make anything less for the time being.

 

And yes, I agree fully that it's all about the baby steps. I just need some help taking my next few is all. The real question is what do you suggest I do next in order to get to the ultimate goal of high quality, realistic music the fastest? I mentioned that some of the options are 'less realistic' and by that I meant that some will get me to the goal in a less efficient or slower way. I'm sure a DAW might get me to that position of quality mock ups more quickly if I were to learn it sooner, but that's just my feeling. Some opinions from people who are there already would be great, and really help to alleviate the anxiety I have.

 

I hope I've advanced the discussion a bit rather than just shut myself down, and thanks for the tip to join the TV and Film group.

 

I appreciate your feedback too - I know it's a rather broad question, but any help is great.

Doug Lauber said:

What are your goals? Do you want to compose for a virtual orchestra and create orchestral mock-ups? It's tough to take an immediate quantum leap to that polished demo. Maybe you should take a few baby steps first? For example, at the very least, I would go to eBay and find a 76 or 88 key keyboard that does all of the MIDI stuff- CC#s etc. You can probably get an Alesis Quadrasynth for 300 or 400 bucks. You can use that to play with your current sample libraries, but you might need a fairly powerful computer to play a large number of instruments. You can probably cut corners by getting the cheaper version of a DAW like Sonar or Cubase- they have basic versions, but if you can afford it, get their top of the line version. You see- it's a matter of how much you're willing to spend. Again, if your goal is to produce a polished mock-up of your orchestral compositions, I would begin with the idea of starting fairly small and building your tool box every year as you acquire more and better tools. Join the TV and FIlm Composers group. Take a look at the tools they are using.

[Greg Brus]

I'm no expert, but I can tell that in order to produce high quality mockups (maybe not high-end style, but at least decent) one needs three things: well prepared MIDI, a tool to manipulate is thoroughly (DAW I guess) and resources to use during the manipulation. You already have MIDI input, whether you use the keyboard or start with a Finale score is a matter of preference; depending on what libraries do you have, you might want to expand these a little or save some bucks and just focus on the DAW.

By the way, Finale is no DAW, methinks. It's a very powerful device for creating good scores, but the possibilities in mixing are limited severely compared to programs like Sonar.

 

As for upgrading the computer itself, well... it would certainly help, however I think you can do fine without tuning it (I assume your budget isn't huge, otherwise you wouldn't be wondering what to pick first :)). My computer is damn old too, and while it tends to choke whenever I load up a regular articulation setup for EWQLSO Gold horns section, it's certainly possible to do wonders with it anyway. If you check the orchestral track on my page, it's my 2nd mockup - Finale score to MIDI, then mixed with Sonar and EWQL (quite an old version too). Not too expensive gear, and the quality could still get A LOT better.

 

What would be the fastest way of achieving high-quality mockups? Well, buy everything (strong computer, DAW, libraries) at once, spend several days digging through your new toys (to settle down the excitement a bit; it disturbs the work flow when you suddenly have the urge to try out some 50 patches...) and just get to work. Only it's pretty expensive, I'd say :)

[Benton Anderson]

Wow, talk about a hurr durr moment, I've never once thought to make my score in Finale, make it a MIDI and then stick it into a DAW. Indeed, my favorite way to write my music is through Finale. I've tried using a piano roll in some demos... yeah, that didn't turn out too well to say the least.

 

So now with that settled, I guess the real question is what DAW will enable me to take the sheet music ideas and convert them into the mixed and mastered product I envision the most efficiently and with the lowest amount of creative interference.

 

Oh, and yeah, Finale isn't a DAW, methinks that youthinks you're correct in that regard, hence the quotes around DAW up above.

 

Anywho, thanks a lot for your input. =)

Greg Brus said:

I'm no expert, but I can tell that in order to produce high quality mockups (maybe not high-end style, but at least decent) one needs three things: well prepared MIDI, a tool to manipulate is thoroughly (DAW I guess) and resources to use during the manipulation. You already have MIDI input, whether you use the keyboard or start with a Finale score is a matter of preference; depending on what libraries do you have, you might want to expand these a little or save some bucks and just focus on the DAW.

By the way, Finale is no DAW, methinks. It's a very powerful device for creating good scores, but the possibilities in mixing are limited severely compared to programs like Sonar.

 

As for upgrading the computer itself, well... it would certainly help, however I think you can do fine without tuning it (I assume your budget isn't huge, otherwise you wouldn't be wondering what to pick first :)). My computer is damn old too, and while it tends to choke whenever I load up a regular articulation setup for EWQLSO Gold horns section, it's certainly possible to do wonders with it anyway. If you check the orchestral track on my page, it's my 2nd mockup - Finale score to MIDI, then mixed with Sonar and EWQL (quite an old version too). Not too expensive gear, and the quality could still get A LOT better.

 

What would be the fastest way of achieving high-quality mockups? Well, buy everything (strong computer, DAW, libraries) at once, spend several days digging through your new toys (to settle down the excitement a bit; it disturbs the work flow when you suddenly have the urge to try out some 50 patches...) and just get to work. Only it's pretty expensive, I'd say :)

[Doug Lauber]

Hopefully we'll hear from those who are doing large-scale orchestrations and also using both a DAW and Finale. You might consider performing parts with a MIDI keyboard, to give the final recording a more human feeling for time. Anyway, as you experiment, you'll discover what works best.

[Doug Lauber]

New computer- definitely can't go wrong there.

Keyboard idea:  http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Keystation88es/

(also, I just checked eBay for the Alesis Quadrasynth- a couple for $300)

[Benton Anderson]

"You can't go wrong with whatever else you do."

 

Heh, well from the research I've been doing today, it seems I could go wrong in terms of sound cards. I hear that some have horrible compatibility issues with Windows 7, some are meant for gaming, some just straight suck. What do you suggest I try to get in that area? I've heard that m-audio makes the best for audio production, or perhaps Emu if the price is right. 

 

I'm really in the dark in terms of sound cards, and getting a good one the first time around would be a great help. Also, I understand that they need to be ASIO compatible too... I don't even know where to begin with all this. What do you suggest? 

 

Oh, and thanks for the Reaper link, I'll try it out. Do you have personal experience with it? Seems awfully cheap (you get what you pay for comes to mind), but is it still a good introductory DAW before I jump headlong into a $300+ Sonar/Cubase? Some input here would be fantastic too.

 

Thanks in advance. 

Ray Kemp said:

Check out www.reaper.fm/download.php

You've got Kontakt 4 so that'll keep you occupied for a long time so think about new Hardware.
Get the computer updated. If you are using PC then Windows 7 x64 OS where you can get the benefit of loads of ram when using Kontakt 4 x64.

I could go on but trust me. The latest hardware just can't go wrong whatever else you do.
minimum quad core cpu etc etc.

[Doug Lauber]

There's tons of info about pro audio interfaces on the net. Try gearslutz.com

and just to get some ideas:http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/computer-audio/audio_interfaces/buyi...

[Doug Lauber]

This is actually a general info guide about various audio interfaces, PCI, USB, firewire, and not brand specific. Check it out:

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/computer-audio/audio_interfaces/buyi...