Ths Study of Music Composition

[Kelvin]

Hi, I just joined this forum a couple hours ago.

I was wondering if all the composers on this forum went through any formal studies in music composition and whether you could recommend some books on composing for films. I am also wondering if all of you were full time composers or if any of you are composing as a hobby/part time career.

I am actually a physician who once aspired to be a musician. I have not had much time for music till recently and just begun composing, and playing the piano(after a long hiatus). I would appreciate any advice you could give me regarding my works and whether it is even remotely possible that I could be as good as you guys are in terms of composition.

I love this site and the works represented here!

Thanks

[Fredrick zinos]

Well, as physician cum musician, I would suggest Haldol. Beside the obvious benefits, the extra-pyramidals will help with the vibrato. As far as formal training, Its my opinion (supported by no facts) that a great deal of what will help you compose, you can learn yourself. Do what Brahms did, take out a piece of manuscript paper, bar off 64 measures and then fill them. Do it every day. The exercises doen't have to be qualitatively on a level with Beethoven, just finish it. Give it some shape, do it with your ears open and look at the patterns that suggest themselves. Then move on.. you know, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

You can learn orchestration the idiosyncarcies of instruments and form and analysis the same way you learned anatomy, physiology and differential diagnostics ..a little bit of "book learnin'" ( Sorry, no Goodman and Gilman here) and a lot of observation. But those are just the mechanical parts, and ultimately and forever useful but mastery of them will not make you a good composer. What will make your music interesting is development of your own unique voice. And that's heard to do since we all tend to want to emulate the sound of some favorite composer.

How do you look at the world? Can you define the difference between your view of the world and the view of the world that comes through the music of your favorite composer?

There are some good examples on this site of composers who have a unique sound and some of them do not have a strong grasp of some of the elements of music, they are just able to make an individualized sound. Look for them. There are also many composers on this site who demonstrate a high degree of competence but who remain derivative in their perspective. Look for them too.

Finally, the "Hindemith Question".. Do you compose because you can, or because you have to?

Best of success. I look forward to hearing your work.

[Glenn Simonelli]

If you have access to a good university music library, one thing you can do that is very helpful is sit down with a recording and the score and follow along with the score as you listen to the music. Note which instruments are combined, which carry melodies and provide harmonies, etc. and what all these different combinations sound like. Be sure to include 20th century music. Even if you haven't yet acquired a taste for composers like Crumb, Berio or Ligeti and the like, take note of the variety sounds they get.

I minored in music composition at Indiana Unniversity, which has a very good music school, and one of the benefits of this was that I got exposed to a lot of music and musical possibilities that I would never have been aware of otherwise.

[James Semple]

Hi Kelvin,

I wouldn't say I went through any formal studies in music composition at all. I came from a contemporary music background which I would say at the moment is probably more useful for film composing than a conservatory background.

Most film music has a pop ethos. Certainly not all but at least 95% of it is created with a pop approach. Even the non-incidental orchestral music in film tends to sound like orchestrated pop music (with very strong up front melodies and even verse/chorus structures).

Anyway books I highly recommend for specifically composing for film are

On the Track: A Guide to Contemporary Film Scoring by Fred Karlin
Composing Music for Film by Jack Smalley

I would also recommend learning a lot on orchestration from various texts and existing works... particularly film scores if you can get hold of them. The Scott Smalley course is great for this. Modern orchestration is generally important because film orchestration is slightly different from the older styles and certain things have changed over the years (oboe players can blend way better than they used to be able for instance).

Hope this is of use to you.

[Ray Kemp]

Kelvin,

To answer your question......no! The composers on this forum are not all studied professionals in music theory and/or performance. This makes the forum a more interesting place. Every genre is welcome and acceptable, even if listening to certain musical output doesn't please, that in itself must help in finding your own path.

Are you a physician desperate to be a composer/musician or will music continue to be a diversion from business? Creating music that entertains yourself is the key. If others approve that's a bonus. If you're pleasing yourself you may write a symphony. If you want to write for others including films, simple memorable tunes may be the way forward.

One other observation for you to ponder. Finding someone who succeeds in becoming a film music composer and doesn't have skills in using computer based Digital Audio Workstations would be finding the exception. IMO proficient use of said technology is a necessity unless working in partnership with someone having such skill.

Concerning your thoughts on being as good as anyone else here..... why wouldn't you be?
Encouragement or even high praise from our peers may be wonderful but not necessarily relevant towards successful productions. IMO no one can be taught to write or perform memorable music, you either can or can't do it. That! is what separates mathematics and music.

Ray

[Kelvin]

I really appreciate all the advice posted here. Glenn, I do have access to the music library here at the Peabody institute and will definitely go check it out this weekend and I will also check out the books that James had recommended.
Thanks again :)

[Kelvin]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for your reply.

At this time I am just content to sit by my piano and hammer out a few tunes.

I think composing have given me a few insights that I would otherwise not have experienced. You see, I did take music theory lessons as required by the ABRSM boards during my earlier years but have never analyzed a piano piece from a structural point of view. I was always concerned with technique, rubato, dynamics, expression etc...One of my teachers gave me a task of analyzing Bach's well tempered Klavier which I half heartedly obliged. The end result is although I am supposed to have a background in harmony/counterpoint and have certificates to prove it - I don't remember much of what I have learned. As you can see from my compositions my harmonic vocabularly is fairly restricted. I am looking forward to expanding my capabilities as a composer - not to make a career out of it but plainly for the purpose of self fullfilment. Hmmm maybe I will be able to appreciate music better too.

As always I appreciate your advise - I am thinking about either learning about DAWs( I definitely have to upgrade my computer hardware too..) or getting keyboard workstation(Yamaha and Korg make pretty decent ones) but my boss(aka my wife) would probably not allow me to pour that much money into it unless I can show a little promise with my compositional skills hahaha...

Thanks again!

Kelvin

[Ray Kemp]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you here.
A computer loaded with a DAW and the software that goes with it is now an essential part of composing.
The exception to the rule is someone who succeeds in creating music of a standard that warrants an audience in public. Our peers here can waffle on for hours on the mathematics, shape, form and theoretical genius of some orchestration that sounds absolutely third rate as a recording. Our peers here won't decide whether you are a successful composer. The only way to get out in the big bad world as a composer is to get connected to the virtual instrument world we now live in, and most importantly learn how to get the best from whatever technology you can afford. The ONLY way 'round this issue is collaborate with others who do know how to get the techno side working. If you are on your own. Start learning about it quickly. Go listen around the forum here. For every member that's a karaoke composer (believes friends and family when they say they're great) there is someone else who when listening to their output you'll immediately say "hey! that's a pro, that's where I want to be".

[Glenn Simonelli]

Well, you can certainly be as good at it as I am, but I wonder if you're setting your sights high enough.

I majored in telecommunications and minored in music composition, taking classes from people like Donald Erb, David Baker and Dominic Spera. After graduating I worked in a recording studio for a little while, mostly keeping the books, but occasionally writing some radio ads and jingles, too. That was fun, but wasn't secure or lucrative enough to support my growing family, so I went back to school and picked up my teaching degree. Now, 20 years later, I'm an assistant professor of science education methods at SUNY Potsdam (http://www2.potsdam.edu/simonega/index.html). My children are mostly grown--my youngest is a junior in high school--so now I finally have the time and space to start composing again. I find that I've lost of lot of what I learned 20 years ago at IU, but through practice a lot of it is coming back to me. One day at a time. But one of the great advantages I have now is that by using a notation program--I use Sibelius--I can get a much better idea if what I'm writing works than I did back when I was in college. Twenty years ago I wrote everything out by hand, and I had to wait until the end of the semester to get an orchestra or jazz band play my work. Now, if the bassoons are overshadowed by the horns, re-writing is a snap. I love it.

[David Molyneux]

I've just joined this as well.
I've studied music to school and have done a Diploma in Music - but it's all elementary stuff - Bach harmonization, simple counterpoint - too simple for a proper training
I aim to do another external diploma that covers 3-part counterpoint next year - then do another with fugue and orchestration
Read loads of books on harmony - the Schoenberg ones are best but read them after you have read more elementary books eg Piston / Gauldin (v.good) - eventually you get to understand the 'system' - once the penny drops it gets easier.
20th century harmony books as well - Perschetti / Ulelha etc. - these get a bit wishy-washy -- (anything can follow anything) -- really the best way to understand 20th century harmony is looking at scores
Counterpoint books are OK - but there is a lot left out - only up to Classical - and virtually nothing on invertible counterpoint / canon / multiple complex counterpoint --the only way to understand how the Mahler etc. (Romantic composers onwards) do it is looking at the music - there are no books on counterpoint in this era
The best I have come across is Tanayev book - extremely complex - I have only read a few pages - will attck this monster at some time - he explains feats of counterpoint other authors thought were impossible
I've read loads of books but the best way IMHO is just analyzing scores in your own way - you can pick up so much more thats not in books
Ear training is very important - but having a good skill in dealing with multiple voices in counterpoint is essential.

So a lot of the stuff i've learnt is self taught - i've concentrated on the theory than actually composing as such - I'm very self critical and destroy virtually everything I've done - I just write passages and fragments - perhaps its all crap but I feel the knowledge I've gained has been indispensible.

Also knowing how to use Sibelius well and having a decent sound library (I have VSL Special Edition + and Sib 5) is important to -- plus being able to orchestrate - loads of books here (Forsynth, Piston, Adler, Berlioz, Rimsky-Korsakov etc.) - looking at as many scores as possible is so important here

Be aware IMHO being a good composer requires a massive amount of hard work, a huge technical knoweledge and having just a natural talent or knack for it. After what I have learnt, compositon is still very difficult and highly demanding to produce anything better than mediocre

[John McIntyre]

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=dd791b7820a8...

Helpful, and free!

[SpyrusTheVirus]

keep on playing the piano,and absolutely listen to music with the score in front of you.I couldn't even suspect how simple was beethoven's 5th symphony (1st movement),until I opened the full score! if you don't have access to any music libraries,or the music libraries you have access to have limited material,have a look at www.imslp.org -click on "petrucci music library"

[Kelvin]

Hi John, this is a great resource you are directing me to I can't believe its free!!
Heartfelt thanks.