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Performing my latest Work Titled:

The Princess' Lair

For Piano and Strings

Regards,

Saul

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I have to agree with the people that commented ahead of me. The sound of this piece is lovely. I love the interaction between violin and piano. Both battle and support each other and the result in sound is unique. I also love the calmness the music carries. It's nice, easy and simple. Only concern I have are the noise levels of piano and violin. I feel like the piano not only stole the show at some points, it also did hurt my ears after a while (I tend to listen to music at 100% volume).

Saul I think in some places you might be hearing the two different strings. In my opinion the strings are somewhat over powering the mix. In order to correct that and get a more true sound field we would need separate tracks and preferably separate midi tracks.

This is what I would call a "rough mix". It's an idea that needs to be sharpened. Can you be more specific on the parts that bother you the most for my future  reference? The nice thing about this is it's not difficult to change or remove entire parts and still maintain this level of sound.

I had envisioned almost eliminating the first string part so we could get a better balance. I am limited for time though, and unfortunately probably don't have the time to make many changes to it back and forth. Was fun to mix though. I hope it gave you some idea of what is possible if the tracks are sitting the way you like.

I used Cakewalk by Bandlab to make this. A free program. Additionally I used a Spitfire Labs, a free strings library. You could do a lot with just that and your piano. I used other payed sample libraries as well.

I'll leave this up briefly for further comment and then take the link down.

Thats Great, Tim!

Timothy Smith said:

 I was a bit limited in my mixing because the track had the strings and the piano on the same track. I added numerous parts to Saul's work. I added a cello and a string section by spitfire that hopefully gave it some more space.Also bass and english horn in places. I tried to compliment the flute with the piano. Additionally there are small piano parts I added to Saul's. Believe it or not the reverb is very minimal on most instruments. I mixed L/R panning. Still the original strings slightly conflict with it. I didn't put a huge amount of time into this as I don't have much :)

I have uploaded a locked track. The only ones who can see it are those who have the following link.

https://soundcloud.com/starise/the-princess-lair/s-OFTKJ

Personally, I like the original version better. The only thing I would have done differently is not use a combination piano/string patch. I would have the piano be it’s on its own track and then build a sparse proper string arrangement over it. The composition however is lovely regardless of the arrangement!

Thank you for this information, highly appreciated.



Timothy Smith said:

Saul I think in some places you might be hearing the two different strings. In my opinion the strings are somewhat over powering the mix. In order to correct that and get a more true sound field we would need separate tracks and preferably separate midi tracks.

This is what I would call a "rough mix". It's an idea that needs to be sharpened. Can you be more specific on the parts that bother you the most for my future  reference? The nice thing about this is it's not difficult to change or remove entire parts and still maintain this level of sound.

I had envisioned almost eliminating the first string part so we could get a better balance. I am limited for time though, and unfortunately probably don't have the time to make many changes to it back and forth. Was fun to mix though. I hope it gave you some idea of what is possible if the tracks are sitting the way you like.

I used Cakewalk by Bandlab to make this. A free program. Additionally I used a Spitfire Labs, a free strings library. You could do a lot with just that and your piano. I used other payed sample libraries as well.

I'll leave this up briefly for further comment and then take the link down.

Thank you for your comments and observation,

Paul Walker said:

I have to agree with the people that commented ahead of me. The sound of this piece is lovely. I love the interaction between violin and piano. Both battle and support each other and the result in sound is unique. I also love the calmness the music carries. It's nice, easy and simple. Only concern I have are the noise levels of piano and violin. I feel like the piano not only stole the show at some points, it also did hurt my ears after a while (I tend to listen to music at 100% volume).

Thank you, glad you enjoyed the music and thanks for the suggestion!

Daniel Krausz said:

Personally, I like the original version better. The only thing I would have done differently is not use a combination piano/string patch. I would have the piano be it’s on its own track and then build a sparse proper string arrangement over it. The composition however is lovely regardless of the arrangement!

I would accept this with great relish! However it is a bit much to be given this advice from someone who gets upset themselves. You are good at disguising it but when your work is critiqued you get upset because you are not here to improve but to be praised and I understand you have been through this cycle in other forums. Its very understandable of course! I simply get frustrated when good critique that could improve your work without even compromising or changing any aspect of the music itself is ignored. I imagine the pride you have in your electric keyboard is at the root of this. Hence my very real confusion at your near-marketing enthusiasm for your instrument and its fidelity but your disinterest at improving your strings because you "don't believe that its bad for what it is, especially for an internet audience such as youtube and Soundcloud." Like an artist who uses the finest brushes or at least brushes he believes to be the finest but the cheapest possible paint in only two colours.

Saul Dzorelashvili said:

I think that there is no reason to get upset about anything, either way. Whether its high quality strings or low quality, its not a reason to be upset about it. Its just music, enjoy it and move on. 



Charles Holt said:

I'm starting to think you don't actually want critique and this is puzzling given where you posted it! You have written with pride on the quality of your digital piano and become quite tetchy when others myself included don't think it's as good as all that. Yet you are also content to defendwhat by most standards is a low quality string sound  with "I understand that this might not be in par with the highest quality sound fonts, but I don't believe that its bad for what it is, especially for an internet audience such as youtube and Soundcloud." Then why did you buy an expensive digital piano and tout its quality when you don't believe your audience is discerning enough to notice an unconvincing string sound that sounds like it came from a keyboard 1/10th the price?

You could fix the most telling issue with ease by simply shortening the attack and release, perhaps adding a little reverb. and it would do nothing but improve the music. You haven't failed if you accept a shortcoming in your production and fix it, quite the opposite. I can understand a sensitive reaction to musical critique so I tend not to but your production needs work as does the production of almost every hobby composer myself included. I have offered easy solutions so you either think your music needs no improvement or you don't care enough to execute them.

Saul Dzorelashvili said:

Charles, I played my Yahama Piano CLP-695-GP Grand and the piano and the strings sounds are from there.

I also utilized the recording feature in the piano and recorded this performance. Then I have edited the sound quality with some audio softwares. That's about it. The strings that you heard in this music is me performing it while choosing at the piano the feature of Piano and Strings. Nothing else was added manually. I understand that this might not be in par with the highest quality sound fonts, but I don't believe that its bad for what it is, especially for an internet audience such as youtube and Soundcloud.

Thank you for your detailed and informative analysis regardless. 

Charles,

That was verbal abuse. I don't know why would you verbally abuse me, even though you have never met me.

If I have ever done anything negative to you, please spill it out, so we may know what is the source of your anger, frustration and hate. If however you can't spell out what it is that I have done to you , since I don't know you, and never met you, then please stop with this behavior, its unacceptable and inappropriate.

I think you should apologize.



Charles Holt said:

I would accept this with great relish! However it is a bit much to be given this advice from someone who gets upset themselves. You are good at disguising it but when your work is critiqued you get upset because you are not here to improve but to be praised and I understand you have been through this cycle in other forums. Its very understandable of course! I simply get frustrated when good critique that could improve your work without even compromising or changing any aspect of the music itself is ignored. I imagine the pride you have in your electric keyboard is at the root of this. Hence my very real confusion at your near-marketing enthusiasm for your instrument and its fidelity but your disinterest at improving your strings because you "don't believe that its bad for what it is, especially for an internet audience such as youtube and Soundcloud." Like an artist who uses the finest brushes or at least brushes he believes to be the finest but the cheapest possible paint in only two colours.

Saul Dzorelashvili said:

I think that there is no reason to get upset about anything, either way. Whether its high quality strings or low quality, its not a reason to be upset about it. Its just music, enjoy it and move on. 



Charles Holt said:

I'm starting to think you don't actually want critique and this is puzzling given where you posted it! You have written with pride on the quality of your digital piano and become quite tetchy when others myself included don't think it's as good as all that. Yet you are also content to defendwhat by most standards is a low quality string sound  with "I understand that this might not be in par with the highest quality sound fonts, but I don't believe that its bad for what it is, especially for an internet audience such as youtube and Soundcloud." Then why did you buy an expensive digital piano and tout its quality when you don't believe your audience is discerning enough to notice an unconvincing string sound that sounds like it came from a keyboard 1/10th the price?

You could fix the most telling issue with ease by simply shortening the attack and release, perhaps adding a little reverb. and it would do nothing but improve the music. You haven't failed if you accept a shortcoming in your production and fix it, quite the opposite. I can understand a sensitive reaction to musical critique so I tend not to but your production needs work as does the production of almost every hobby composer myself included. I have offered easy solutions so you either think your music needs no improvement or you don't care enough to execute them.

Saul Dzorelashvili said:

Charles, I played my Yahama Piano CLP-695-GP Grand and the piano and the strings sounds are from there.

I also utilized the recording feature in the piano and recorded this performance. Then I have edited the sound quality with some audio softwares. That's about it. The strings that you heard in this music is me performing it while choosing at the piano the feature of Piano and Strings. Nothing else was added manually. I understand that this might not be in par with the highest quality sound fonts, but I don't believe that its bad for what it is, especially for an internet audience such as youtube and Soundcloud.

Thank you for your detailed and informative analysis regardless. 

I don't believe anytihng I said satisfies the terms for abuse, I would need to be wrong first! You are posting a great many pieces in a section designed for analysis and critique which you almost uniformly ignore when offered and you offer your own critique to other members only occasionally. It seems beyond debate that you are here foremost to self-promote works presented as-is without intent to improve. When your instrument was criticised you became defensive but you also excuse poorer aspects of production as sufficient for an internet audience. You are of course not worth anger or hate but this attitude is certainlt frustrating!

I saw that you deleted your comment thanking me for my input but I just wanted to say I appreciate it Saul and I hope you take at least some of it on board going forward. Charles

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