Composers' Forum

Music Composers Unite!

Hi everybody.

Again a while ago, I know I'm not around much. I have finished another choral piece now. Sadly, I like to write my chorals in German, so the title is Das Opfer der armen Witwe. For anyone owning a Bible (or caring to look it up on the net) the text is derived from Marcus 12:41-44.

Again I used full orchestra and choir, and this time I used a tenor solo.

Feel free to comment. Especially the end (last two pages) need some attention, for I am a bit lost there.

Keep it friendly, honest and helpful please.

Views: 151

Attachments:

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Hi Erwin, I think you will have to examine the score again. Either you don't know enough about harmony to pull this off, or you are a very modern composer. Perhaps you made a couple of mistakes with the transposing instruments.

I seem to be a modern composer, trying to write classical music. Can you be more specific, please? I know there are a few dissonants in it, btw.

Can you explain the harmony in measure 7 and 8 to me?

Erwin van Delft said:

I seem to be a modern composer, trying to write classical music. Can you be more specific, please? I know there are a few dissonants in it, btw.

I see what you mean... Mmm... And I thought I had a good look at the harmonics.

To be honest, I made quite a mistake there, thank you. Solved it now.

Attachments:

That seems an odd lineup to me if ever you have this performed - a lot of woodwinds in an unusual configuration and fewer strings than you'd expect to balance. I'd say minimum 12-10-8-6-5, or knock the woodwinds down, but then you might have a specific reason. Something like Mozart's Requiem has relatively few strings and balances with the choir, but it has less of everything else as well.

I'm afraid these two measures were only the first two that should be re-examined. There are so much weird harmonic structures, that I would suggest you analyse the complete piece first and then orchestrate it again. It would help if you make a piano excerpt. Most notation programs can do this for you.

Erwin van Delft said:

I see what you mean... Mmm... And I thought I had a good look at the harmonics.

To be honest, I made quite a mistake there, thank you. Solved it now.

It seems I had a bit of an off while writing this... And I put in so much time. No, that is a mistake too from my side, the numbers you gave are the numbers I should have put in, Dave. My error again (I am not used to making so many mistakes...)

Re the instruments, that's just numbers, it doesn't affect the writing. As for the trouble Rowy has with your harmonic language, taking advice is great but if it's your personal voice and how you write, don't change it just because one person doesn't like it.

Erwin van Delft said:

It seems I had a bit of an off while writing this... And I put in so much time. No, that is a mistake too from my side, the numbers you gave are the numbers I should have put in, Dave. My error again (I am not used to making so many mistakes...)

It's not what I like. As a (retired) teacher I sense there's something fundamentally wrong here. If one of my students would have written this, I would give him the same advise as I gave Erwin, no matter what style.

When a composer thinks the composition sounds fine as it is, that is his right. But there's also something like experience and ability to use the theory you've studied. Usually it takes a couple of years before a student is able to find the mistakes himself, by listening to or by studying the score. That's why you study music composition. You need help.

To be quite frank, if Erwin was a student of mine, I would need several lessons just to clear up the score (but I'm retired, so I'm not going to do that; I just gave an advice) and that has nothing to do with a personal view. A composer can make mistakes, especially when he lacks experience and/or knowledge.

Dave Dexter said:

Re the instruments, that's just numbers, it doesn't affect the writing. As for the trouble Rowy has with your harmonic language, taking advice is great but if it's your personal voice and how you write, don't change it just because one person doesn't like it.

Erwin van Delft said:

It seems I had a bit of an off while writing this... And I put in so much time. No, that is a mistake too from my side, the numbers you gave are the numbers I should have put in, Dave. My error again (I am not used to making so many mistakes...)

Granted. But a composer in the developing stage is also at the most susceptible and suggestible point, so I think you should be more delicate than saying the piece is fundamentally wrong and contains many weird harmonies. You don't know if that's inexperience or the developing style, and you don't know if you're quashing that style. Some music is more easy to fit in the context of established theory and assess which bits don't fit; some music is not.

Rowy van Hest said:

It's not what I like. As a (retired) teacher I sense there's something fundamentally wrong here. If one of my students would have written this, I would give him the same advise as I gave Erwin, no matter what style.

When a composer thinks the composition sounds fine as it is, that is his right. But there's also something like experience and ability to use the theory you've studied. Usually it takes a couple of years before a student is able to find the mistakes himself, by listening to or by studying the score. That's why you study music composition. You need help.

To be quite frank, if Erwin was a student of mine, I would need several lessons just to clear up the score (but I'm retired, so I'm not going to do that; I just gave an advice) and that has nothing to do with a personal view. A composer can make mistakes, especially when he lacks experience and/or knowledge.

Wrong is wrong. It's as simple as that. Now, let's hear what Erwin has to say.

Dave Dexter said:

Granted. But a composer in the developing stage is also at the most susceptible and suggestible point, so I think you should be more delicate than saying the piece is fundamentally wrong and contains many weird harmonies. You don't know if that's inexperience or the developing style, and you don't know if you're quashing that style. Some music is more easy to fit in the context of established theory and assess which bits don't fit; some music is not.

Wrong is subjective. This is a wider issue than Erwin's piece - if you're actually operating on the assumption that you can state with authority "wrong is wrong" in terms of a composer's harmonic preferences, that's just misguided. Advise, suggest, intimate but "wrong"? Nope.

It's as simple as that.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

© 2017   Created by Chris Merritt.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service