Music Composers Unite!
the documentary "Who killed the eclectic car?" is an example of that force ('gag orders') in play in the broad light of day..
(as a piece of film work, perhaps it moves less than allegretto… but the message is clear!)
I have to say, just as a thought, I find the underlying premise of one part of the video—about the energy bicycle—a bit difficult to take in. (And I didn't hear any
"beautiful symphony," or anything that I would even call "good music" in the video presentation, so I don't understand the title of this thread).
The bike idea sounds good, on the surface. But think about it. Can one imagine the poorest of the poor—people living in huts without electricity or running water, people exhausted from working 12 to 14 hours in the fields—actually riding these "electric generation bicycles?" Can one see them doing this for an hour or more each day? It seems unlikely. Would they even have the time, or the energy to do it? It's not like they need "more exercise," since they are tuckered out from doing too much physical labor already, and badly exploited to boot.
How could they afford to purchase the bicycles in the first place? How much would they cost?
It seems a bit odd, also, to preach to the poor, tired and hungry, that you should peddle for your electricity, while the rich simply turn a switch. In India, we are talking about hundreds of millions of people. Those as wealthy as the owner of "Five Hour Energy," or even in the middle class, are a small minority. You are going to tell the toiling masses that they should actually work MORE than they do now?
Can we imagine the dictum, "Bicycling for your energy will make the world a better place, a cleaner place," and then recommending EVERYONE should do it? It's the wealthy and the upper middle class, Americans and Europeans living in advanced economically developed countries that usually need the exercise. But only the poor will be asked to do this, obviously. Those who are too poor to do otherwise, will pray for the day when they don't have to do it any longer, and when they can get on the grid, and flip the switch, as their "masters" do.
The average middle class world citizen won't do it, probably, and feel resentment perhaps, about being asked to, given the way the middle class itself throughout the world is under attack. This "philanthropist" might do better to fund trade union movements, or better yet, see that his own workers get a better wage than they do now; start setting up cooperatives, workers' democratic control of industry, profit sharing, and so on. This video all may simply be a kind of PR on his part. I suspect it is.
Maybe he's simply trying to "launder" his money; since Five Hour Energy Drinks are said by many health experts to be fairly nasty products, with numerous negative side effects, having in some cases even caused serious illness and death. It's not as good for you as fruit juice, milk, water, or even tea or coffee. Isn't it also addictive, given the higher levels of stimulants? That's why I suggest he might be looked at as drug pusher, trying to launder his billions, rather than as a genuine philanthropist.
So I am dubious about a number of aspects of this, until I hear that communities are genuinely benefitting from it. There are no peer reviewed studies, or social research projects done on any aspect of this "energy bicycle," as far as I can discover. Should he be promoting it before any of the necessary social research has been done (especially if this is for the public good)? I have heard that micro-solar power gathering devices are the way to go in rural areas in Africa and Asia. They are not so expensive to produce. And they are small. That makes more sense to me than this obvious monstrosity of a bicycle-power plant complex for each little hut. Why, IT WOULD TAKE UP THE WHOLE SPACE of any hut in which it was installed. It's huge.
This could all be an indication of just how out-of-touch the Indian (and world) elite is, when it comes to the actual living conditions of the Indian masses. Notice the video does NOT show any Indian peasants, farmers or poor people taking advantage of, or using the technology. You just have to watch a few hours of NDTV.com (Indian TV, in English) to see and hear reports, which will indicate how out of touch this upper class is throughout India and most of South Asia (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, the Maldives). The wealth divide is startling. Occasionally, this is revealed, but very often it is covered up and ignored.
New Delhi TV, India
Watch it live, here:
Their news begins on the half hour, rather than on the hour.
I am really interested to know what one of these things shown in the video costs, in any case. I tried to look it up, but couldn't find anything about prices. I wouldn't be surprised if just one of them cost as much as the combined yearly salaries of everyone in a small town in rural India.
Ondib , the music was not written in notes, it was written in Heart and Soul.
It is about opening airwaves that have been in lockdown and actually doing
something constructive .
It is about giving back.
It is about mans humanity towards his fellow man.
It is about creative solutions outside of the control of
governments and corporate profits.
If you listen closer you may even hear the angels singing.
You seem more interested in your own diatribe. RS
Hello Roger, you said,
"Ondib , the music was not written in notes, it was written in Heart and Soul."
How do we know that? Is it just something you assume, or something you believe, based on the evidence? What is the evidence?
How do we know the whole thing isn't just slick PR piece, designed to make a company owner look good?
"It is about opening airwaves that have been in lockdown and actually doing something constructive."
Is it? That's what you are saying. Perhaps you are right. But if you are, can you answer my points about the class problems in India, and the way in which a device like the "electrical bicycle" might fall short, both in theory, and in fact? If you believe this is what you say it is, presumably you will be able to answer the questions that I have raised. You can, can't you? I admit that the device might, theoretically be a good thing, but the questions raised do deserve some kind of response. That's a fairly reasonable position, don't you think?
"It is about giving back. It is about mans humanity towards his fellow man."
Well, it might be. You assert it is. I would like more concrete evidence, to deal with specific questions.
It could be about:
1) A propaganda effort to cleanse the reputation of company which produces a product which has been known to cause death, and which is thought to be pernicious rather than beneficial, by many health experts. Could you deal with that please?
2) It could also be looked at, as a kind of moral "money laundering," due to the addictive nature of the product, "Five Hour Energy." It is addictive, and the comparison with drug dealers, who distribute addictive products, and then "give back," is not necessarily inappropriate. In Colombia, just to cite one example, Pablo Escobar was known both for his involvement with the drug trade, and also for "giving back" to the community, with the promotion of all sorts of charitable enterprises in his home city of Medellín. (I happen to have lived there for two years, so I have seen that sort of thing).
"It is about creative solutions outside of the control of
governments and corporate profits."
So you say. You believe this, or you want to believe this, for some reason. If you claim to be interested in "the people," then I wonder why you might not appear to be interested in people's movements, or popular organizations that actually represent and are set up by working people (as opposed to corporate types, who are potentially representatives of the corporatocracy, and who are definitely members of the corporate and financially elite class).
Did you say how much this corporate CEO pays his workers? Would you mind finding out?
"If you listen closer you may even hear the angels singing."
I don't see any obstacles, given an open mind and an open heart, to hearing angels and even the divine voice in any almost any situation or place. "The Kingdom of God is Within," said Jesus. Tolstoy and Gandhi echoed the sentiment. Swedenbourg and William Blake talked about how to commune with angels. But Blake was not so enamoured wealthy business owners, and almost lost his freedom during a trial when he spoke in favor of certain aspects of the French Revolution of 1789. He loved the people, ordinary working class people. He was one of them. He also created visually compelling portraits and depictions of angels throughout his life.
But rather than talking about angels in this situation (and let us remember, the video makes no particular claim about angels), I would just like you to answer the questions I have posed. You seem to want to avoid them, and provide me with a few generalities here, rather than show that you really believe this device and this video is a good thing, based on evidence that you can find or possess. You have to admit, the "entrepreneurs," as a class, do like to promote the myth of the creativity of the businessman, as the source of almost everything that is good. They also have the ability and the funds to create videos to disseminate that myth, videos which may appear very convincing, as this one no doubt appears to you to be.
If this "energy bicycle" is a good thing, perhaps you can simply tell me how much it would cost?
Please scroll back and look at the specific questions I posed, and tell me if you can answer them. I would also like to know how you think the whole idea would sit with the working poor in India, given what I said in my previous post.
"You seem more interested in your own diatribe."
I didn't know you considered questions in that way. I am merely doubting the purpose of the video. I am willing to be corrected, if you can provide facts and evidence on this issue. I hope you aren't using the word "diatribe" merely to avoid answering questions, as a way of attacking the questioner and evading the issue. Are you?
Onbid, I came across the video. I watched it. I heard a beautiful symphony.
I thought I would share this and see if anyone else heard what I heard.
That is it - plain and simple. There is nothing to prove.
If you don't hear it then, you don't hear it.
I know you have heard the expression, ' A fool can ask more questions
than a wise man can answer' and you are familiar I'm sure with the saying.
'Let them with ears to hear , hear and also the parable of the tares.
I'm not suggesting that this is a GIANT leap for mankind or a cure-all.
It IS, to me, a step in a right direction and long overdue.
What you choose to perceive and what I choose to perceive is
not the issue, nor is it really debateable. RS
ps- any other questions?
The energy bike - and the idea of unplugging from the grid - is a good idea in and of itself… (Whether it can be easily applied to as O mentions - ..'the poorest of the poor'…. is another 'equation' .. But for those who want to unplug in the 'developed' nations - (and get exercise)-- it seems like a good idea indeed.. The question to my mind is how long would one have to ride in a day to cover the energy consumed by the average household in the US…
"Onbid, I came across the video. I watched it. I heard a beautiful symphony."
I think you may be speaking metaphorically. Some may hear a symphony, figuratively speaking. Some may see a promotional video, and hear some bad music in the background. Anyone can see or hear anything, I suppose, if we assume a relativistic epistemology. I am not criticizing you for posting it, or saying you should not be allowed your own interpretation. But by posting it, I assume you invite various reactions, and are prepared for the fact that they might not all be enthusiastically positive.
"I thought I would share this and see if anyone else heard what I heard."
Even if they do, at first hearing, there may remain the task of thinking about what has been heard. One has the right to ask, as I am asking, whether there is any trickery involved here? When the magician performs his trick, everyone applauds, and some of the more naive members of the audience actually believe they have seen (or heard) real magic. So now, this video has been put up, and some people have heard it, and they have had some time to react. Upon reflection, however, a number of people might also think, there is more (or less) to this than meets the eye. It's promotional, like a commercial. Most ads and commercials are based on deception.
Someone might want to ask, for instance, how fast and hard do you have peddle to create X amount of electricity? I am not sure if the video answers that, since I haven't seen the entire thing. Can you answer that?
There is nothing new about this type of technology; let us be very clear about that. I owned a small multi-band radio that could be powered alternately by batteries or by kinetic energy storage. In other words, you could crank a handle around a number of times to give it power, and to enable it to play for a while, without using batteries. It actually took a lot of effort to crank it up -- just so it would last several minutes. As months passed, the amount of time needed to crank grew longer; and the amount of time the radio would play grew shorter.
Is this a potential problem with the technology in question? Is that addressed at all in the video? I am very curious to know what it means to say, you have to peddle for an hour get 24 hours worth of electricity. Is that 24 hours for the regular electricity requirements of a small hut in rural India? Would that include, what you might need, in terms of energy, to run a washing machine? Could you add to that, a refrigerator, a radio, a television set, a fan, an air conditioner, electric clocks? Or does this mean you can just get a few rows of electric light bulbs to work?
I don't know if the video addresses this, if the exact quantities of electrical energy generated can be known, from this ad, or even from the web site of the company that promotes this product. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
"That is it - plain and simple. There is nothing to prove."
I think you might consider yourself as possibly obliged to prove that the whole thing isn't a fraud or a publicity stunt, or just "money-laundering" or any of the things I mentioned before. You posted it. You may find it inspiring, but the person who ends up using the darn thing may find it not to be of much use at all. How do we know it isn't all just a public relations blitz to repair the bad reputation of Five Hour Energy? If it's so inspiring, I wonder if you are going to order one. I thought I might get one, so that I can exercise for an hour in order to give me enough energy to run an electric toothbrush. But I won't purchase one, unless someone else gets one first, and tells me how well it really works.
"If you don't hear it then, you don't hear it."
I hear it, all right. It sounds to me like it might resemble a third rate overture played by a second rate band, though I can see how some people might be fooled by it. It may sound good the first time, like a von Suppe overture, a tone poem by Liszt or a waltz by Strauss Senior. But after one or two listenings, I doubt if people would find it very compelling. So in that sense, I say, it might be a trick. How many times do you have to hear it, before the effect begins to diminish. You bill it as the "Most Beautiful Symphony in Recent History." If I said a symphony by Shostakovich or Prokofiev or even Allan Pettersson was one of "the most beautiful symphonies in recent history," it would be because I thought it had persistent, or almost transcendent and timeless power. It would be because I thought that after repeated hearings, it would become more compelling, and because it would reveal more of itself, the more times you listened. You can listen to Shostakovich's Fourth dozens of times, and still not get everything out of it that is there. THIS is what some people mean when they speak of "genius." Personally, I don't see why the word "genius" would be used in connection with this video. How many times would one listen to it to find it ultimately lacking, empty and superficial? When would it just start to sound like another late night infomercial for a new exercise machine?
'I know you have heard the expression, ' A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer' and you are familiar I'm sure with the saying. 'Let them with ears to hear, hear and also the parable of the tares.'
It may be true that a fool can answer more questions than a wise man can answer. But you haven't answered ANY of my questions about the product, the video, the capitalist in question, or how he pays his workers. You haven't answered ANY of my questions at all, much less the number of questions that a slow speaking fool might be able to ask you over a short period of time.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear," was said by Jesus, but how that saying may be relevant in this context—that's something you have not explained. You seem to be implying that this video is either the product of divine inspiration, like a book of poems produced by a holy seer (holy seer = entrepreneur; we know 20% of Republicans think that about Donald Trump), or you are suggesting that this video really resembles one of the "greatest symphonies in recent history." If so, I think you might want to say why. It was you who gave the title to the thread. Which great symphony does it resemble, and in what way?
"I'm not suggesting that this is a GIANT leap for mankind or a cure-all. It IS, to me, a step in a right direction and long overdue."
I think the opposite is the case. It's a step backwards. I will let you go first and say why you think it might be a GIANT leap forward, instead of a leap in reverse, and an evasion, or even a full scale prevarication. That can be the subject of your next post, if you like.
"What you choose to perceive and what I choose to perceive is not the issue, nor is it really debatable."
Of course it is. Why isn't it? We are given the little box to type our words in and the reply button for a reason. You describe reality as you see it, and I describe reality as I see it. I don't think the purpose of a forum is simply for you to say, "This 'info-ad-documentary' is divinely inspired, and I am sure you all agree," and then just to become mute, or avoid questions, when that premise is questioned.
There is give and take. You provide your views, facts that you have, perceptions and the basis of your perceptions, and others do the same. It's a two way street. Then people who observe the conversation can also add their opinions, modify the theses offered, and draw additional conclusions. How can you say "it's not debatable," when the Roman Forum itself, the original forum in the First Republic (508 BCE) was set up for the purpose of debate and public discourse? I was of the opinion that you believed in the ideals of a Republic. The US itself, as you well know, was founded as a Republic.
You concluded by asking,
"ps- any other questions?"
There are plenty more questions. But I hope you answer some of the ones I have already asked (and that you have not yet answered) before we go on to some new ones. At the very least, please tell me what evidence you have to indicate this product, the energy generating bicycle, will have any significant value at all for the rural poor in India.
gregorio, now that is a good and honest question.
Obviously the small prototype demonstrated a small
capacity and output. But it did work . The next step I
would think, is to leverage that concept.
Hypothetically, you could run a graphene cable from
a thermal heat source, to a steam turbine generator
and gain unlimited polution free energy.
Whether this energy/electricity can be distributed
wirelessly, as Tesla demonstrated can be done, to-
(for the sake of this discussion), an entire community
as a co-op, remains to be seen.
A modified version could be turned/run by a river or stream.
A hampster in a wheel cage might even power your midi - ha ha
The main point is that creative minds are now freely working on
real off the corporate grid solutions and 'doing' something to make
Another outstanding webpage, if you are interested, is The Thrive Movement.
Foster and Kimberley Gambel host a wealth of information, data and discussion
about improving life on the planet for everyone. RS
OO, for you this is probably just a mere infomercial and ad.
Thank you for your interest and input.
Feel free to move on and misread another post.
You are not obligated to 'get it'. RS
Yep, mostly a scam. but it gets folks thinking about potential and
the idea of exploring new ideas. RS
As an aside, Roger.
Do you have an opinion about over-unity, or zero point energy?
How about the combined areas of "electrogravitics, overunity levitation, gravity beam propulsion, microwave phase conjugation, and magnetic energy conversion?"
Have you taken a look at anything like this:
roger stancill said:
Yep, mostly a scam. but it gets folks thinking about potential and
the idea of exploring new ideas. RS
As an aside, Roger.
Do you have an opinion about over-unity, or zero point energy?
Lmn O pqrstuv, no sir I haven't seen this specific video or read the bookage.
Just think for a moment, if JP Morgan had not been such a greedy industrialist,(bastard)
and 100 yrs. ago he had actually truly aided and promoted Tesla, in the same
spirit that the video exemplifies; where would the human race be by now.
It really' boils my potatoes' to think about it.
That is one reason the video stood out . If people only knew !
We are finally coming out of the old paradigm, and that is why I stand and
applaude anyone with the insight and courage to get this information out.
A lot of people have mysteriously died attempting to break the chains that
have shackled this knowledge. There is plenty of evidence to support this.
But, people really need to get involved and do their own research, and stop
believing that the government is going to take care of things.
THAT is... in a word.... naive. RS