struggling with "unrealistic" strings..any advice on software to use and techniques..

[chris cole]

i am currently using string patches within logic 8 pro and vsl orchestra with kontakt2. although these packages have been ok in the past as i'm now doing more tv work i'm finding that the quality just isn't up to scratch. i'm aware that nothing will beat a live performance but as there is never a budget large enough to consider that does anyone have any advice on packages or techniques i should be looking into that will help avoid the "synth" sound i always seem to end up with.

[Peter Alexander]

There are three issues here.

1. Knowing how to effectively write for strings.

2. Having good sample libraries.

3. Knowing which string writing techniques work best with samples to achieve a realistic sound.

With these three pieces, even "unrealistic" strings can sound good.

Even if you have LASS (see my initial review at www.soniccontrol.tv), you still need to know how to write for strings.

The most realistic sounding electronic string parts are linear with minimum vertical harmony. Invest $17US into Corelli's Concerti Grossi (http://store.doverpublications.com/0486256065.html). The objective ISN'T writing like Corelli, but examining his vertical structures and then applying them to your writing style.

Recently, we released From Piano to Strings (see www.truespec.com) and I wanted to use the newer libraries to create MIDI mockups of the examples in the book. Now, I had done this once before with a single library years ago - the original Synclavier strings, which at the time, were the best there were. When I listened back to the demo CD before it went to duplication, I killed the project. I wouldn't release it, because the one library sounded so synthy.

So, TEN YEARS pass. Newer libraries. New 50th anniversary edition. I tried recording the same examples with individual libraries. Results - all failed. Every library sounded synthetic, including creating the dreaded organ sound.

OBSERVATION - dense orchestral string writing doesn't work well with single string libraries - for 10 years!

REALITY - simpler linear writing with open spacing using vertical intervals of thirds, sixths, and thirds and sixths in vertical octaves works the best - STILL!

HOLLYWOOD REALITY - A problem with most string libraries isn't the absence of legato, it's the absence of a large Violins 1 section that sounds great in the high and very high registers to create a soaring emotional line. I beta tested both original Vienna libraries, First and Pro editions. Neither library, nor the strings in Logic (which are also licensed from Vienna) can achieve this. So you need that 18 Violins sound from QLSO Gold or Symphobia to have that tool.

Peter Alexander

[William Edwards]

I got my hands finally on some of the string programs, which are: East West Symphonic Gold, and Sam Project Symphobia. I'm not sure what you prefer though, more options and customizations or upfront everything ready software? Symphobia just has a couple of presets, like Staccato laid out on the whole keyboard, then Tremolo laid and etc... East West Symphonic on the other hand, gives you option of loading only Violins , or only cello's or only Viola's.. Because the Symphobia loads all of the instruments already, doesn't matter if you are going to use cello's only or not, the other strings will be always part of the patch.

But the sound is Great!!! They both sound amazing. Superior.

And might I suggest, if you are making music for cinema or for yourself, try the program: East West StormDrummer 2..

[Jan Civil]

the thing I like most about VSL is that they have Vienna Suite, convo verbs, EQ, compression, and EXCITERS presets made for their instruments. The exciters are the ticket, to get a 'singing string tone'. They have the most excellent tutorials.

Cinesamples has a couple of 'not expensive' things, such as Drums of War. they just had some bundles a sale on all their stuff, and they'll make you up your own bundle. They have the actual Iron Man guitar sound in one bundle called Kill Stuff.

LASS sounds very warm and rich in their demos, and apparently a very detailed layout as far as setting the sections in desks on stage.

[Jan Civil]

godammit. You've sold me on this thing. Grrr. I have to think about buying it.

I looked at the videos of LASS, and this is new stuff. The rhythm articulator thingy looks like a real time saver. the whole interface does. it sounds stupendous. Dammit all.

I do know this, the solo cello player #2 in GPO is a serviceable villain. With keyswitches on almost every note that is. and some cuts in the lower mids. I think spending money is a time = money, or time v, money equation with some things.


Ich bin der Dreck unter deinen Walzen
Ich bin dein geheimer Schmutz
Und verlorenes Metallgeld
Ich bin deine Ritze und Schlitze

[Jan Civil]

No, actually one does not. One needs to know how to produce *that sound* with a convolution reverb and probably an exciter, and place the sound in a mix. The difference between the EW and VSL is EW has the Hollywood Studio Room built in, VSL is recorded on a dry sound stage. VSL can be used with Vienna Suite to get a Better Sound than EW, for my ears.

The more chops you have the less stuff you "need", tends to be a fact in any music creation.

[Kelly Dowhower]

Some good ideas---I'll try some of that out.

Thanks

[Michal Cielecki]

Anyone of you who has EW Symphonic Orchestra libraries tried the patches called "run simulator"? I have not used it yet, but wanted to know how they work (as the name indicates their purpose for some fast string passages).

Cheers,
Michal

[Ray Kemp]

On the 11 violins effects you have run down and run up psycho patches no more than that

[Simon Godden]

Am I to understand that 'chops' means 'skills'?

[James Semple]

Hi Michal,

Yes I've used them. There's no doubt that simulating fast string runs is REALLY REALLY difficult.

I just used them and wrote in the fast runs. They're not bad but in the end I layered them with 5 other tracks (including the VSL Appassionata Trills, Symphobia stuff, chamber strings, solo strings) and EQ'd them like crazy to make them sound less full and I felt like I got a decent result. It's a ton of work though, no doubt.

Here's an example ... http://www.jamessemple.com/ls/setnin1.mp3 ... the string run is right at the start.