Rock music

[Aaron Limberger]

Am I really the only one who composes rock music? i have found at most 2 songs one hear that are some sort of rock. the rest are orchestral. I'm not saying orchestral is bad but I'm saying be different.

[Douglas Edward]

Hey Aaron- I'm sure there are plenty of other composers here who write rock music, they probably just don't post much. I think most people who frequently write rock music, with or without vocals, would still be considered songwriters. So if you are interested in finding other full-time rockers, you might try looking under songwriting forums, rock forums, etc. In America, it's actually harder to find orchestral composers as opposed to songwriters/rock bands. That's what experience has shown me anyway.
:)

[Aaron Limberger]

When I read these comments I didn't know what "through composed" meant. but then I remembered. the funny thing is I do not make my music with a voice part and I have no band. so it is really hard for me to song write. so I compose rock music "through composed"

[Paul Cecchetti]

Well,,,I composed a lot of rock music back in the day...but I moved onto classical music and jazz as i got older...i still love rock music, but i think composing classical is more rewarding, for me it is at least.

Why dont you check out www.youngcomposers.com ? they have a section especially for rock, pop and jazz among all the other things.

And you CAN compose rock in the same way most of us compose classical- using software called Guitar Pro 5 , or GP5... its basically a system of tabbing out music using MIDI, its a great way to jot down your ideas if you're a guitarist and have any knowledge of music theory.

But seriously, get yourself a band...while forums are great, they're no substitute for playing your music live.

[Tombo Rombo]

I respectfully disagree with the other posts. Take a look at Frank Zappa, Yes, King Crimson, etc etc. Rock music is not just for youngsters and can certainly be through composed and well thought out. The main difference between rock music and orchestral is the timbre. Rock is a very malleable style. Sure there are your mindless automaton riff bashing crap machines but you also have your boring stuffy pretentious classical composers that nobody wants to listen to. Check out my profile page if you would like to hear a rock style composiiton in the tune "Neat Boys!" It has motives, counterpoint, interesting textures, all those things that certain classical composers seem to think only exist in their domain. Respectfully. I also contend that song writers are not necessarily "not composers". What about Schubert, Strauss, Schumann, Wolf? Last time I checked those dudes wrote songs.

However, imploring others to be different will not get you far. If everyone was different, nobody would be. Go ahead and write what you love. Rock on!

[Tombo Rombo]

It seems that the crux of the biscuit here is the definition of "composed". I do not believe you need to have a physical score for something to be considered a composition. Take electronic music for example.

Also, in most instances the definitve representation of a rock song is a particular recording rather than a score. In that case the recording process itself could be considered a part of the composing process, if you allow the term compose to mean put together. Not the best definition but hopefully you get my drift. Also, the recorded improvisations are often reified. For example plenty of rock guitarists try their best to reproduce the recorded solo exactly in live performance. If you broaden the defintion of "score" to mean a set of directions for music to be reproduced in roughly the same manner each time, a recording would in fact fit that definition as long as a musician refers to the recording to reproduce the music. Often there are many different composers for a single rock song. There is the producer, the performers, the record company, the sound engineer, etc. Does this mulitplicity make something less of a composition? Food for thought in any case.

I am also not sure why a chord chart is not considered a score of sorts. Do you believe that the greater the amount of liberty left to the performer the further a set of instructions comes from being considered a composition? That certainly could be the case, depending on your definition of composing.

[Tombo Rombo]

I am glad that you set forth a specific definition. It is always good to know precisely what we are talking about. I also like that you included caveats such as "frequently" and "usually". One point I disagree with is that compositions are very frequently written to further one's artistic development. Many great compositions were written merely to pay the rent, by commission, to commemorate some event, to instruct others, for a competition, and so on. Very often these pieces do in fact help to develop the composer's artistic practice but that may not have been the intention.

But yes, there are definitely differences between what the Red Hot Chili Peppers do and what Schumann did and your definition helps to distiguish between the two.

[Aaron Limberger]

I'm not trying to define what I mean I was just trying to see if people only compose this orchestral stuff. I like some orchestral stuff npt a lot. Now im not trying to put anybody down but theres nothing in these songs that really sticks out. thats one of the reasons that i like rock you got about 3 4 5 minutes to get the point across, lay down a nice riff, and make a catchy tune. even if its through composed you dont need this 10 minute song that has no real meaning. now i could not write a orchestral peice for my life but maybe people can have a little more variety. ive only seen a couple of diferent genres here. a small amount of jazz, very little (but still some) tecno electric music and rock amd finally A LOT of classical music.

[Aaron Limberger]

I have been looking but cant seem to find any.

Chris Alpiar said:

Our community is mostly orchestral film, media and concert composers. I think you would do well to either enjoy the company here and learn from our talented community or move on to a rocker oriented forum ;-) Writing a post with this tone about how you can only find classical music here, well besides quickly making non-friends by offending people you will also get nothing from it. I wont force you to, but I would suggest you move on and find a forum more suited to your tastes.

Aaron Limberger said:

I'm not trying to define what I mean I was just trying to see if people only compose this orchestral stuff. I like some orchestral stuff npt a lot. Now im not trying to put anybody down but theres nothing in these songs that really sticks out. thats one of the reasons that i like rock you got about 3 4 5 minutes to get the point across, lay down a nice riff, and make a catchy tune. even if its through composed you dont need this 10 minute song that has no real meaning. now i could not write a orchestral peice for my life but maybe people can have a little more variety. ive only seen a couple of diferent genres here. a small amount of jazz, very little (but still some) tecno electric music and rock amd finally A LOT of classical music.

[Aaron Limberger]

I am sorry I said that. I didnt really notice that it had evolved like that. but having this discussion has accually taught me a lot

Thomas Green said:

Besides which, Aaron,
Just about every post here so far has in some way suggested that rock and pop are fine things with their own merits; things which many of the composers here appreciate or are familiar with. It's as if you're expecting some sort of snobbery which isn't presenting itself...

The conversation naturally drifted towards us defining out terms in an effort to explain why it seems a certain sort of music is represented on this forum; which is your question.

[Tyler Hughes]

I agree with Chris, you might need to go out and find rockers like yourself. This community is more towards either art music or commercial music, and less about pop and rock music (though there are composers here that write pop and rock music). You seem very driven to make it as a rocker, so you need to find people that can help you in that field. People who know how to form a band, get gigs, ect.
Granted, you can still learn a lot on this forum that can help you musically, you do need to find a place that might better suite you. Places like the following:
http://www.rockforums.net/
http://www.rock-forums.com/
http://www.musiciansforums.com/forums/
http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/

I just googled Rock forums and Musician Forums and I got these places. They look like they are more your speed and better suited for your needs.

Aaron Limberger said:

I have been looking but cant seem to find any.

Chris Alpiar said:

Our community is mostly orchestral film, media and concert composers. I think you would do well to either enjoy the company here and learn from our talented community or move on to a rocker oriented forum ;-) Writing a post with this tone about how you can only find classical music here, well besides quickly making non-friends by offending people you will also get nothing from it. I wont force you to, but I would suggest you move on and find a forum more suited to your tastes.

Aaron Limberger said:

I'm not trying to define what I mean I was just trying to see if people only compose this orchestral stuff. I like some orchestral stuff npt a lot. Now im not trying to put anybody down but theres nothing in these songs that really sticks out. thats one of the reasons that i like rock you got about 3 4 5 minutes to get the point across, lay down a nice riff, and make a catchy tune. even if its through composed you dont need this 10 minute song that has no real meaning. now i could not write a orchestral peice for my life but maybe people can have a little more variety. ive only seen a couple of diferent genres here. a small amount of jazz, very little (but still some) tecno electric music and rock amd finally A LOT of classical music.

[Aaron Limberger]

wow thanks tyler i will still stay part of this but now im going to focus on ROCKING.

Tyler said:

I agree with Chris, you might need to go out and find rockers like yourself. This community is more towards either art music or commercial music, and less about pop and rock music (though there are composers here that write pop and rock music). You seem very driven to make it as a rocker, so you need to find people that can help you in that field. People who know how to form a band, get gigs, ect.
Granted, you can still learn a lot on this forum that can help you musically, you do need to find a place that might better suite you. Places like the following:
http://www.rockforums.net/
http://www.rock-forums.com/
http://www.musiciansforums.com/forums/
http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/

I just googled Rock forums and Musician Forums and I got these places. They look like they are more your speed and better suited for your needs.

Aaron Limberger said:

I have been looking but cant seem to find any.

Chris Alpiar said:

Our community is mostly orchestral film, media and concert composers. I think you would do well to either enjoy the company here and learn from our talented community or move on to a rocker oriented forum ;-) Writing a post with this tone about how you can only find classical music here, well besides quickly making non-friends by offending people you will also get nothing from it. I wont force you to, but I would suggest you move on and find a forum more suited to your tastes.

Aaron Limberger said:

I'm not trying to define what I mean I was just trying to see if people only compose this orchestral stuff. I like some orchestral stuff npt a lot. Now im not trying to put anybody down but theres nothing in these songs that really sticks out. thats one of the reasons that i like rock you got about 3 4 5 minutes to get the point across, lay down a nice riff, and make a catchy tune. even if its through composed you dont need this 10 minute song that has no real meaning. now i could not write a orchestral peice for my life but maybe people can have a little more variety. ive only seen a couple of diferent genres here. a small amount of jazz, very little (but still some) tecno electric music and rock amd finally A LOT of classical music.

[Aaron Limberger]

Reading what this makes me think of Ian Anderson of jethro tull. one of the best musicans ever. he has this rock sort of style but if you breack it down he makes very orchestral styled music.

Thomas Green said:

"I'd hate to see you deprive yourself of musical appreciation by adhering to an unnatural (possibly imaginary) segregation between "Rock" and "Classical""

Kristofer, you've made some really strong points. The same goes for classical people who refuse to acknowledge the wide-spread nature and influence of rock/pop, or to pretend that there is no gradation between the two - just black and white.

But this doesn't mean that if you're into rock you need to have classical licks, or anything like that, or vice versa. Rather, it's simply a good thing to be aware of the world that you live in.

Aaron, there are tons of composers out there who are from a "classical" background yet write very rock-oriented music, as well as people who have different "brands," and work in both areas. Arguably, these days, having several different approaches is the norm.