Composers' Forum

Music Composers Unite!

Whole tone melody. Suggestions welcome.

Views: 71

Attachments:

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

What's the motivation behind the piece? I find it very nice but also kind of standard. The rhythmic patterns are a bit too strict for me and a bit to pale making it kind of one-sided, emotionally.

 

I had to edit this and say that with just a few minor changes in the percussion work this could stand out a lot more than it does right now. It's fine for much of the improv sections but when the main lead comes back I can't help but feeling that instead of the percussion dropping out all the way it could at least fill then step into another rhythmic feel for at least a bar to then return. But that's just my subjective view and it may not make much sense to you. Sorry if I wasted your time and thank you for sharing this lovely piece.

Thanks for your comments Vincenti. Yes this recording was in my living room without a lot of rehearsal and I do believe that it could use some stronger rhythmic definition between the last solo and the head out. Thanks again for taking the time to make suggestions.
That's impressive, it's a very good recording considering it's from a living room. I'd buy an album in this quality, and this content for that matter.
It's an effective piece, but writing a whole-tone scale melody, especially one that is readily identifiable by ear as "whole tone"  is passe.  You really should aim to confuse me as much as possible ;-)
Thank you Jonas, yes I understand, and of course since Debussy all whole tone melodies are readily identifiable. In the whole tone world there is only one place to modulate, do you think that that would be enough to give it more interest or would you mix it with other modes? Again, thanks for taking the time to listen and offer suggestions.

For me, the basic issue with the whole-tone scale (and the augmented triad) is that it has no root. So the options are to locate other roots for the augmented structure OR you can extend the augmented structure to 6 or more notes. 

 

Looking at the augmented triad, it is just a series of major third intervals. To extend the structure, you have to shift it down by a half step in the subsequent octaves.  So the complete structure would be C- e-g#, B-d#-g, Bb-d-f#, A-c#-f (notice the descending half-step roots C B Bb A).  You don't have to use all 12-notes of the structure at the same time, but it does sound remarkably tonal when all the notes are sounded simultaneously because it observes the basic architecture of the overtone series.

Thanks Jonas,

I will explore this as whole tone and I suppose that it's also a twelve tone row. Lots of possibilities.

 

Thank you!

Good work and good performers! It`s a good piece in a concert with different works (slow, lyrical, etc.) I listened a lot of jazz- works with brass but your piece i listened twice and i like improvisations (espetially trombone), harmony, rhithm-section - all.

But about whole tone melody, nothing strange, i like too, sound interesting, it`s a logical construction. Now many good musicians are looking for interesting melodic lines in "academic" area.

Thank`s for good piece.

Vlad, thank you for your kind comments. Jonas, I have been playing around with your twelve note  sequence. Could you please explain in a bit more detail. You said "So the options are to locate other roots for the augmented structure OR you can extend the augmented structure to 6 or more notes."  Now by saying, locate other roots, did you mean something like putting G below C aug (g c e g#) that is, using a note outside of c whole tone for the root? And to extend the augmented structure to 6 notes or more I see your example. Would another example be to shift up a perfect fourth? c e g# c# f a d f# a# d# g b. This picks up all notes in the chromatic scale, but I was wondering why you said 6 notes or more. Thanks for your input!

Generally speaking my logic is based on intervals.

 

An augmented triad consists of the starting tone, then 4 half steps + 4 half steps.  I think of it as "4+4".  This structure is an "equal interval" structure and does not have a root (just like 3+3+3 doesn't have a root).  To find the root(s) for 4+4, just count down 3 half steps from any of those tones (the starting tones are counted as "zero").  This will result in three different minor-major7 chords.  As a side note, to find the roots for 3+3+3 (diminished), count down 4 steps from any of the tones.  

 

The interval structure of the minor-major7 chord is 3+4+3....which also has other possible roots.  I'll leave it to you to figure out that math game.

 

As far as extending the augmented structure, it can be extended all the way out to a 12- note structure.  Since 4+4 is complete within a single octave, the only way to extend it into the 2nd octave (and beyond) is to shift it down by half step in the subsequent octaves (which is what I outlined earlier).  Doing this avoids outside octave dissonances (b9 intervals) and obeys the basic structure of the overtone series.  This is why it sounds remarkably consonant even if you sound all 12 notes simultaneously.

 

Although you have 12 notes available, you don't have to use them all at the same time.  You can start at the bottom on the structure using 3, 4 or 5 consecutive chord tones and invert your way up and down the 12 note structure. This becomes much more fun when you change the root tone.

Yes, thanks very much and I'll continue to play with it.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Sign up info

Read before you sign up to find out what the requirements are!

Store

© 2021   Created by Gav Brown.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service