Composers' Forum

Music Composers Unite!

A new higher standard has been enacted to the Politics and Music Forum. It is now the Debate in Music Forum. Here any topic worth debate, serious discussion, and logical arguing can be posted here. To ensure civil and worthwhile discussion a few new guidelines that apply ONLY TO THIS PART OF THE FORUM will be used as a way to direct your discussions:

  1. All post must stay on topic to the original post. 
    1. additionally try to avoid going down rabbit holes (i.e. going off topic on to closely related topics but still unrelated areas)
  2. All post must be well thought out and if possible cited (no prober bibliography needed just mention where you are pulling your facts from once in a while)
  3. Remain civil even if you passionately disagree with someone else. 
  4. The thread originator has every right to delete the thread or comments made if they feel it does not justly serve the threads mission. 
  5. Avoid personal attacks 
  6. Try to avoid as much as possible logical fallacies, bad or false citations and facts, or irrelevant facts to the topic. 
  7. No soap box post (unless it is relevant to the topic, avoid spouting off unsolicited personal beliefs and convection)

With that said, I hope to see many spirited and thought provoking debates. Happy Posting. 

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Excellent. Thank you

I have occasionally participated in these types of discussions and have the following thoughts to share, from my perspective only. 1) A short post gets my attention more than a long post. I suggest you provide a brief overview of your point and let the conversation roll forward from there. You don't need to prove all your points in your original post, you can do that in any follow-up conversations. 2) Conversely, a post with little information other than "look at this link" or "listen to this music" is not likely to get a response from me. If you tell me why the link is relevant to the conversation it's more likely to get me to listen to it.  3) As Tyler said, please stay on topic.

Also, I suggest that any post that does not contain the word "music," "compose," or "composer," should (perhaps) be taken aside, and examined for possible deletion.

Furthermore, at least one well known composer, like Beethoven or Toru Takemitsu (武満 徹) should be mentioned in each post.

This would keep people on topic, and make the posts relevant to music and composing.

I think there is merit in compelling the poster to disclose what s/he believes the relationship to be between music and the subject of the post.

That said, there is nothing that can prevent a poster from providing that relationship information and then taking off on a tangent.

For example, we recently we were treated to the spectacle of an individual posting a protest to the staging of Klinghoffer at the Met.  The real objective of the post from the moment it was posted was a crude polemic on the superiority of a specific ethnic group.

I doubt if that kind of deceptive conduct can be controlled short of expelling the offender.

Again? Surely not.

I had no problem with those posts about the "superiority" of a certain ethnic group.

After all, the alleged superiority of one "race," ethnicity," or social group, and its consequences ARE ACTUALLY one of the main themes of the opera. So it was on topic.

I find it hard though, to believe that people who criticize it, have not seen the opera.

They should at least see this opening scene of the Death of Klinghoffer.

The Chorus of Exiled Palestinians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jw33u9qAsE

Ondib. I have to hand it to you.. that is a very good point.

But that raise the question if the claimed superiority of a race is objected to by the poster, why does he himself engage in it?

And I think the music is some of the finest Adams has ever written. Too bad it was almost drowned out by people objecting to it without hearing it.

It's nothing like adultery. Pretty much every culture is against adultery.

The message(whatever it is, since you haven't seen it) of the opera is wrong in your view. But it might not be wrong in everyone's view.

That may be closer. But the action is not always the message. I could be wrong, but I doubt that the message of the opera is that it is OK to kill a Jew.

The word that comes to my mind here is "agenda." It is easy to identify thoses posts which are intended to push the author's pet agenda. Usually it's political or religious. The former bores me, while the latter I consider a private matter. Much preferable to stick to music. Although that can get boring also. Thus, our dilemma...

I think the conversation y'all are looking for is here:

http://composersforum.ning.com/forum/topics/ny-times-the-metropolit...

I think this one is about debate etiquette 

"The message of the Opera that its not only ok to kill a Jew, its also perfectly fine to barb out an Opera about it, get an audience to cheer it,"

Is this the actual intended  message, or is this your interpretation?

It may be possible that the intended message (whatever that might be)could be wrong. So might your interpretation.

Seems kind of a waste of time, folks discussing something they haven't seen, and know little about.

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