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Not that I need much excuse, but here's some Williams from Return of the Jedi. It's not one of the ballbusting main or character themes, though Palpatine's leitmotif is present.

For those ignorant: it's the final fight between space laser dad and space laser son, on a giant floating bomb-marble. I love the mournful power and drama, and that the music isn't about epic fanfares but underscoring the dread, unique emotional situation. My favourite section is 1.13 - 1.45, when space-laser-fight is happening. I've linked the video from there, but I'm not your space dad. Listen to it however you like. https://youtu.be/7MJzvyzbqGI?t=1m13s

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The value of John Williams' music for me remains an open question.  I think, in light of the discussion about Bach, some comparisons could be made.  Aristotle says, quite rightly I believe, that one of the best ways to produce knowledge or understanding of anything is through comparison and contrast.

For instance, this very early piece by Bach, BWV 4 - Christ lag in Todesbanden, might be compared favorably or unfavorably with John Williams "Chorale" works in the Star Wars films.

Consider a comparison of John Williams "Duel of the Fates"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzVBqBosf5w

with one short part, or parts of this early Cantata by J. S. Bach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZCIBUefDHk

Christ lag in Todesbanden

In the Bach work, one could limit oneself to:

1:05 2. Chœur

Presumably this is bad "Bach," immature Bach, and the worst work of Bach, because it's so early.  Does early "bad" Bach compare favorably or unfavorably with late or mature John Williams, from the point of view of musical aesthetics?

We are NOT comparing apples and orange, as some might claim.  Listening to either work, in the privacy of one's own home, in front of a computer, is a "listening experience." It's an "aesthetic event" which is bound to give a certain degree of pleasure, or not.  It's interesting to gauge one's reaction, and the nature of the experience.

Good.

Serenity Laine said:

The value of John Williams' music for me remains an open question.  I think, in light of the discussion about Bach, some comparisons could be made.  Aristotle says, quite rightly I believe, that one of the best ways to produce knowledge or understanding of anything is through comparison and contrast.

For instance, this very early piece by Bach, BWV 4 - Christ lag in Todesbanden, might be compared favorably or unfavorably with John Williams "Chorale" works in the Star Wars films.

Consider a comparison of John Williams "Duel of the Fates"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzVBqBosf5w

with one short part, or parts of this early Cantata by J. S. Bach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZCIBUefDHk

Christ lag in Todesbanden

In the Bach work, one could limit oneself to:

1:05 2. Chœur

Presumably this is bad "Bach," immature Bach, and the worst work of Bach, because it's so early.  Does early "bad" Bach compare favorably or unfavorably with late or mature John Williams, from the point of view of musical aesthetics?

We are NOT comparing apples and orange, as some might claim.  Listening to either work, in the privacy of one's own home, in front of a computer, is a "listening experience." It's an "aesthetic event" which is bound to give a certain degree of pleasure, or not.  It's interesting to gauge one's reaction, and the nature of the experience.

 Does early "bad" Bach compare favorably or unfavorably with late or mature John Williams, from the point of view of musical aesthetics?

May the farce be with you......

 

I once had a pasty from Cornwall, and one from near York. They were made by different people at different times. Perhaps I should have been comparing them to each other by various metrics instead of enjoying the flavour.

Mike Hewer said:

May the farce be with you......

 

Perhaps you could've ate them at the same time whilst being in Cornwall AND York - a kind of poly-locality

I'm all for comparing apples and oranges.  Frankly, I like oranges better.

Having heard the "immature" Bach a few times now, I think it's better than the John Williams.  Since the last three posts didn't really seem to address the issue of William's music, I thought we might bring it back to that.  I know people like to stay on topic here.  No one appears to disagree with Aristotle, that knowledge of a thing is often best obtained through comparison and contrast. 

I preferred the pasty from York

Serenity Laine said:

I'm all for comparing apples and oranges.  Frankly, I like oranges better.

Having heard the "immature" Bach a few times now, I think it's better than the John Williams.  Since the last three posts didn't really seem to address the issue of William's music, I thought we might bring it back to that.  I know people like to stay on topic here.  No one appears to disagree with Aristotle, that knowledge of a thing is often best obtained through comparison and contrast. 

Dave,

Watch this all the way through......excellent stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oipg71dSem0&feature=youtu.be

I've seen that before, and do not resent being reminded of it in the slightest.

Semi-related, this conversation thread seldom fails to cheer me up. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/02/df/c1/02dfc116921911d1...

"The moustache of a man with nothing to lose."

Mike Hewer said:

Dave,

Watch this all the way through......excellent stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oipg71dSem0&feature=youtu.be

I've got to say, this isn't one of my favourites

Starring Randy Quaid, as was legally mandated at this point in film history. Nice to see JW has scored at least one failed movie.

Ray said:

I've got to say, this isn't one of my favourites



Mike Hewer said:

Dave,

Watch this all the way through......excellent stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oipg71dSem0&feature=youtu.be

I just had to get up off the floor!

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