Composers' Forum

Music Composers Unite!

This came up in another thread.

And to answer it I think we need to look at just what music is, and is not.

I think that music a multifaceted experience. Most people know it only as a listening experience. But up until the age of recording, music was also a live production experience. The only way to hear music was if someone played it. Music was special. Now it's kind of a throw-away thing.

Music is to be listened to.

Music is to be written.

Music is to be performed ( live ).

As  a recording, music is a reproduction, and as such is certainly a commodity to be bought and sold, and eventually thrown away. 

I grew up playing trumpet. As an instrumentalist, I played in concert band, marching band, orchestra, pit bands, studio band, jazz band, and more. I was inside music as it was being produced. In some ways, I feel there is no better way to experience how instruments fit together, than to be inside the entity producing the music, and contribute to it. 

I know, I know, not everyone plays an instrument, and now there are computers that let us bypass the boring process of having to know anything about music, and go right to the producing part. I get it, I really do. I get the attraction. I produce music with my computer, too. But no matter the quality of any software I might have, it does not take the place of a live performance. 

Learn to play guitar. You hardly need a musical bone in your body to be able to play well enough to play with other equally learned players, in order to feel what it's like to be inside the music. As a guitar player, I can say that.

We all have our favorite recordings of our favorite pieces. But those recordings, no matter how perfect, are static. Every time we listen, the music is the same. We depend on it. We become addicted to it. But a professional orchestra (any group, really) never plays a piece the same way twice. Can't be done, and why would they want to, anyway. The music is alive, apprehensive, leading, pushing, and dynamic. I think our reliance on recording leads some to think that we don't need musicians, any more. Randomness could be programmed into software, but it's not the same. Musicians don't study to play random. Then there are microphones. Mics lie, rooms lie, even our ears lie. Storage devices lie. 

I don't think that music is commodity to be bought and sold. At least not like like a loaf of bread. Although like the baker, the musician should be paid, but paid well. It's not easy to learn to play any instrument.

Do you know who makes the most money every time a recording is sold? The musician makes only a fraction of each dollar. Same in a concert situation. The musician sucks hind teat. Concerts and recording situations are so expensive. Is it because we need thousand dollar mics and several multi channel mixing boards, in special rooms. Well sure, I know all that can make a big difference. On the other hand, I've heard recordings made on a four trac cassette with a $50 mic, that were just awesome. This guy was a fantastic performer who knew how to use his equipment. 

Which brings us to the touchy subject of copyright. Did you know that the creators of costumes for Mardi Gras copyright their creations. Did you know that if you take a picture of a horse, and later you want to make a drawing of that photo, that you need to get the permission of the owner, especially if you might make some money from the drawing?

Yet we all post copyrighted material from YouTube all the time. We think that if it's on the internet, than it belongs to everyone. So far, that is not true. Should it be? 

I could go on. But let's open it up. What's on your mind about this?

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Bob Porter said:

My wife is an expert at calligraphy. Before home computers could print music, she would write out my music on staff paper she lined herself, in ink with a calligraphy pen. Depending on the nib she wanted to use, some of the pins used cartridges, some she had to dip in ink like a quill. She did this time and time again without error. It looked like it came off of a printing press. She also did wedding announcements and place cards, on occasion. As computers took over printing like this, she counted her talents as another useless skill. On occasion, someone who wanted the charm of hand-lettered things would contact her. She's also a colored pencil artist. You know, those crappy things folks my age had to use to color maps in elementary school. But no, turns out there are very expensive ones that are oil based and quite lovely. She also knows charcoal, watercolors and oil. But to do any art with those things takes a lot of space and time just to set up. So she does it all on an iPad Pro with a $10 app that she says is so close to real medium that she would rather use the iPad. Of course there are differences but she knows how to use the real medium. And that makes all the difference. If I were to pick up her iPad, I would only produce junk. Sure I would have fun, but In order to produce anything worth looking at would take the same decades of study my wife put in. Oh, and talent

I think you all can connect the dots. Nothing wrong with using a computer, but it seems to me that just as much skill is involved whether you use one or not.

Could an admin explain why my comment "you're responding to them now" was inappropriate? It seemed both civil and apposite. And the posting of the "troll in the dungeon" video, in regards to a member I genuinely believe to be trolling and is started to be viewed with suspicion by a number of members including one of the admins themselves. I won't say which one, though, that might be inappropriate.

Rodney,

I attended one of those military funerals where taps was played through a fake bugle. Seemed kind of disrespectful to me

Morabito,

"I couldnt agree more Em..Ive tried getting it addressed but with no avail..

What we're told is NOT to respond..which simply doesnt work when a lie has been told, or real insults spoken..and those posts arent being deleted,  so they just hang there with no response for all to see..

Its simply NOT fair.."

What god appointed you sole arbiter of what is truth and what are lies? Life is indeed not fair. And you can't make it fair.

And, as usual, you won't be able to resist a reply that is some kind of put down. 

You see Bob youre doing it again, and in such a short time since your last attack...please calm down and stop attacking me. Again. And unprovoked. And unnecessary.

Thanks-lets try and stick to music.

And if someone should dare to reply to you you'll cry "See what I mean?" and claim their reply is some kind of put down or attack..yet thats EXACTLY what youre doing to me, but fail to see it. But it seems you feel its ok for you to do to me and others.

Unreal....

And yes, Bob you do it not ONLY to me but others--I just read this from another poster:

I was off the forum for a week or so, (as in rehabbing from an overdose.) Actually I attended my daughter's wedding. When I left, Bob was arguing with Roger. When I came back Bob was arguing with Roger.

People are noticing this about you, Bob besides me. So dont just take my word for it. Thanks

I would most kindly suggest that instead of these kinds of attacks more time might possibly be put into the wording of your threads--they usually go on forever, mainly in my opinion, and Ive seen others say it also--because the topics you present are unclear, with a huge chunk of it being you attacking Roger, who seems to only be asking questions to try and clarify what you might be meaning in your threads, along with others.

Of course then you take time every once in a while to attack me which seem only to happen at particular times...theyre almost predictable, Bob.

Anyway again--please CALM DOWN and enjoy your evening.

And try to resist and not turn this into another thousand page argument like you do with Roger. Let it go..you once again started and I replied.  End of story.

Thanks Bob

Thanks Bob https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito



Bob Porter said:

Morabito,

"I couldnt agree more Em..Ive tried getting it addressed but with no avail..

What we're told is NOT to respond..which simply doesnt work when a lie has been told, or real insults spoken..and those posts arent being deleted,  so they just hang there with no response for all to see..

Its simply NOT fair.."

What god appointed you sole arbiter of what is truth and what are lies? Life is indeed not fair. And you can't make it fair.

And, as usual, you won't be able to resist a reply that is some kind of put down. 

Bloody hell, you weren't wrong.

Bob Porter said:

And, as usual, you won't be able to resist a reply that is some kind of put down. 

Dave,

Morabito is compulsive. He really believes he has the moral high ground. "Calm down", "people are starting to notice". Someone else always starts it, never him. He'll take anything out of context if it makes him look innocent.

I'm just asking questions and giving my opinion. 

The people who create it, be they live performers, digital producers, pokers of notes on a piano roll, sound designers etc. are all part of the eco system that keeps producing new music! So yes, we need musicians.

Paralleling this-this idea of what if something, in this case, bees--went extinct from an eco system, is eye opening. After watching the video and reading the article and similarly thinking if musicians went extinct and trying to trace the many bad effects it would have, proves, to me at least that yes...we need musicians!

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140502-what-if-bees-went-extinct

Thanks Bob

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito



Vn said:

To me music is unique and essential. The people who create it, be they live performers, digital producers, pokers of notes on a piano roll, sound designers etc. are all part of the eco system that keeps producing new music! So yes, we need musicians.

Copyright is a nice to have imo.

Thanks, Bob. Well put.

Bob Morabito said:

The people who create it, be they live performers, digital producers, pokers of notes on a piano roll, sound designers etc. are all part of the eco system that keeps producing new music! So yes, we need musicians.

Paralleling this-this idea of what if something, in this case, bees--went extinct from an eco system, is eye opening. After watching the video and reading the article and similarly thinking if musicians went extinct and trying to trace the many bad effects it would have, proves, to me at least that yes...we need musicians!

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140502-what-if-bees-went-extinct

Thanks Bob

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito



Vn said:

To me music is unique and essential. The people who create it, be they live performers, digital producers, pokers of notes on a piano roll, sound designers etc. are all part of the eco system that keeps producing new music! So yes, we need musicians.

Copyright is a nice to have imo.

Thank you, Bob

Bob

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito



Bob Porter said:

Thanks, Bob. Well put.

Bob Morabito said:

The people who create it, be they live performers, digital producers, pokers of notes on a piano roll, sound designers etc. are all part of the eco system that keeps producing new music! So yes, we need musicians.

Paralleling this-this idea of what if something, in this case, bees--went extinct from an eco system, is eye opening. After watching the video and reading the article and similarly thinking if musicians went extinct and trying to trace the many bad effects it would have, proves, to me at least that yes...we need musicians!

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140502-what-if-bees-went-extinct

Thanks Bob

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

From a practical perspective,

Samples: https://soundcloud.com/davedextermusic/sails-and-waypoints-demo/s-8...

Orchestra: https://soundcloud.com/davedextermusic/sails-and-waypoints

With more time, the samples could be made to sound better - and through someone with better libraries and more experience, better still. But I don't think they could ever compare with the real thing.

Do we need live theatre? Why not just go to the movies? Do we need live sports? why not just play video games?

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