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This is the rough draft for a composition that is admittedly partially inspired by another thread here (the one that introduced me to some really great music, and particularly that of Thomas Tallis). Although this is for an instrumental quintet rather than voices and, of course, couldn't begin to approach that level of writing, though I am pleased with the culmination of this piece (being section VIII starting at 8:41). While, I'm probably just imagining it, for a fleeting second there I seem to almost capture that spirit. But then, quickly lose it.

I am pushing myself extremely out of my comfort zone with this one, not to mention its much longer than I am accustomed to.  And as such, I would appreciate any impressions or suggestions for improvement as well as insight for notation issues such as the appropriate key signature for section VII (measures 132 to 160).  Since I tend to not stick to traditional treatment of keys, I usually choose key signatures that reduce the number of accidentals to make it easier to read. But I am stumped on this one, and have for the time being just put it in C major.

Also, there is the problem of constantly having to change dynamics in measures 69 to 71 to achieve a moody weaving effect. (This was actually the reason for my previous questions on this matter). And I should mention the form is intentionally unique to this piece as its an instrumental drama.

The music itself is intended to convey the almost spiritual experience of a foggy dawn in a nature preserve atop a small mountain. 

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Indiana Style Guide

Tim Marko said:

Thanks Julie,

I agree that the style and format of title pages are subject to publisher nuance, but I do think they are important.  As I said, I would never present a work for consideration without one.  Not so for posting to a forum.

I started the italics after seeing it here in the Indiana style guide.  (See under fonts.)  They referred to "Gould", so I assumed it was in her book and therefore "gospel".  I just checked and don't see any mention of it in her book.  (Just when you think you know...!!! lol).

After all these years, I keep learning!

Thanks for the link to the Indiana Style Guide, Tim.  That is so interesting!

I always use Gould as my final reference.  I get my exercise lugging that book back and forth from the bookcase.  For those of you who might not know who Gould is (NOT Glenn, by the way - that's another story) here is a link to the book we're talking about: 

http://www.fabermusic.com/news/elaine-goulds-behind-bars-is-a-world...

It's expensive, but worth it for anyone who wants to create professional scores.  You can get it on Amazon, at least for the time being:

https://www.amazon.com/Behind-Bars-Definitive-Guide-Notation/dp/057...

Funny,  I don't even bother putting back on the bookcase, just leave it here next to me! Saves steps lol.

Julie Harris said:

Thanks for the link to the Indiana Style Guide, Tim.  That is so interesting!

I always use Gould as my final reference.  I get my exercise lugging that book back and forth from the bookcase.  For those of you who might not know who Gould is (NOT Glenn, by the way - that's another story) here is a link to the book we're talking about: 

http://www.fabermusic.com/news/elaine-goulds-behind-bars-is-a-world...

It's expensive, but worth it for anyone who wants to create professional scores.  You can get it on Amazon, at least for the time being:

https://www.amazon.com/Behind-Bars-Definitive-Guide-Notation/dp/057...

Thank you, Tim for taking the time to provide the notation example and explanation. I've attempted to fix the score to adhere to those rules. Most of them make sense except the major subdivision. I have, perhaps mistakenly, inferred from the example that it is okay to cross the subdivision with half and dotted half notes, but not with whole notes or dotted quarter or smaller notes.  Does this only apply to whole notes tied to others or all whole notes? When should whole notes be used? 

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Much nicer looking!  2 small nits; bar lines should match the brackets, single line for fl, eh and bsn, single line for vcs.  Rehearsal marks don't need to start at the beginning.  Move A to where you have B etc.  The beginning is a rehearsal mark already.

As to the subdivisions, give me a bit of time to come up with some examples for you.

Keep it up!!!!

OK, here goes.  (Forgive the anticipated length.)  I've attached a pdf of some examples and will try to talk you through them.

rhythym%20sheet.pdf

Divisions in rhythm can be looked at as groupings of 2, 3 or 4.  2 and 4 are basically the same.  In a 4/4 measure, we have four quarter notes.  The major subdivision is between beat 3 and 4.  In notation, we want to see beat 3.  Measure 2 in the example let's the player see beat 3 as does example 4.  A dot can carry across the division if it starts on a division as in example 5.  In example 7, the dotted note doesn't start on a division (not beat 1 or 3) so the better way to notate is example 9.  Example 11 and 12 show two ways to write the same figure with 11 showing a syncopation. These will be interpreted differently by a performer.  Example 3, 6, 8 and 10 show the division going down to the next level and can be carried down to 1/128th notes or more (think 4 divisions).

In 3/4 time, we have 3 quarters with no "middle".  Here we need to see at least two of the "beats". example 14 and 15 would both be correct.  Example 16 shows how a dot should be handled.  Again, the goal is to show at least 2 beats.

When filling in rests, we work from shortest to longest again while showing the division points.  Example 17 we start with the eighth rest and build up to the half rest.  We can still see the subdivision.

In 6/8 time we have both present, A division of 2 for the measure (example 20) and a division of 3 within the "pulse" (example 21).  The treatment would be the same using the appropriate division (2 and 3).

In your piece we have 5/4 time.  The major division will occur either between beat 3 and 4 (3+2) or between beat 2 and 3 (2+3).  Each division gets treated appropriately a division of 2 and a division of 3.

Other time signatures will generally fall into one of these categories. 12/8 has four divisions with 3 divisions within, etc.

5/8 has 2 divisions with either a 3+2 grouping or a 2+3 grouping.

These rules also apply to beaming notes.  You don't want to beam across the division.

If you read the discussion that Julie tagged in your other post, you'll find we had a discussion over this topic, where she pointed out a reason she chose to change the beaming in a piece.  She did this with an awareness of the "normal convention" and what she wanted to relay to the performer.

There are of course exceptions to all of this but the goal needs to be to make everything as clear as possible for the performer.  These are what they are used to seeing so any exception needs to be thought out carefully.

By the way, a whole note is appropriate to fill a 4/4 bar.  If you take the examples, you can shorten each note length or augment each note length, so a whole note would also be proper in a 6/4 measure, etc.

Hope this helps.

Thank you so much, Tim. I think I understand now. I've edited the score so that every 1 and 4 beat is showing since the measure split is 3-2. I ran into a little problem with measure 28 so I elected to split the quarter rest into 2 eighth rests for clarity and ease of counting (I hope that musicians won't be insulted by this). I've also changed the barlines and rehearsal marks as noted and added section titles.  

Thank you for taking the time to explain these things.  I am hopeful that I might be able to produce a proper score yet.

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m28 is perfect!  That's exactly how it should look in a 3+2 grouping.

Producing a proper score is an art form in itself.  I still struggle with it and every time I think I know something, I find other alternatives.  Just as composing, it constantly evolves.  

When you are ready, I highly recommend the book "Behind Bars" that Julie and I referred to earlier.  Another good quick reference book is "Essential Dictionary of Music Notation" by Tom Gerau and Linda Lusk.  It's available from Amazon for about $10.  Not near as complete as the "Gould", but worth it non the less.

I  often times take as much time preparing the score as I do writing the piece of music and still haven't managed to get it to the art form I believe it can be.

 

So lovely! Gives me a sense of peace; it's like waking up on a gray sky morning, feeling the cold breeze on your clothes and watching the clouds go slowly with a bit of silver lining from the sunrise. Thank you for this wonderful piece.

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