Can anyone do this?

[Lori Sweeney]

So what makes a composer a composer? I mean when are you entitled? Does a composer need a music degree? A contract? A gig? I write music. Can I still be called a composer without any of that, music good or bad? Just curious.

[Lori Sweeney]

That makes a lot of sense Ray. Just putting notes to sheet doesn't make you much of a composer if nobody enjoys the music. I suppose you could say it's like me cutting into someones chest and calling myself a heart surgeon, which I am not by the way. Does anyone out there ever worry that nobody will enjoy your music or what if you are the only one who thinks your works are good? Or is everyone here super confident?

[Lori Sweeney]

Thank you Anne, it's good to know that others share the same worry and I can see how helpful this forum would be in regards to that. I am still in awe of the gifted composers I have seen on this site alone and can't imagine why you or they would have worries, but I suppose it's natural. I am definitely here to learn and try new things and in just one day I've already received useful advice. I'm not exactly sure how to take the rest of your post regarding ranking order and very little so-called talent, but I've made it quite clear that I am no super musical genius (even though my mother thinks I am) and I am in no way making light of music composition in any way. I have been away from music for 20 years and am quite serious about gaining helpful knowledge to advance my compositions and even though we all hope others enjoy our music, at the end of the day, if I'm satisfied with my work, I guess that's all that matters. Of course I'm never satisfied, always thinking this could be better. I'm just lacking the tools on how to do that. I had opportunities many years ago that I foolishly passed on, so now I'm determined to see just what might have been. I can however say that no matter what, as you stated above, I am definitely enjoying the process!

[Chris Alpiar]

Traditionally a composer is someone that composes instrumental music and songwriters are those who write songs. Composers have traditionally been more of a hi-brow, scholarly, deep and philosophical craft, where songwriting has been more a a down-to-earth no education needed, dont even need to read music kind of situation where you put less subtle and more obvious melody and harmony to words.

Both can be art. both can be ridiculous.

Today the word 'composer' is stretched across much of the grey area that used to be so very obvious to those writing symphonies vs the Bob Dylan's of the world.

Music is about expression of emotion with notes. Art is about truth. I hope to attain truth and acumen of emotion both in my music with a reverence for tradition and hi level of craft, and to explore new places yet to be discovered as a scientist, yet still being accessible to the lay-man who lives in popular music. I dont expect it is achievable, but that is my personal goal :-)

I consider myself an intellectual, a musician, a philosopher, a listener, a lover. To me to know my art and myself is to have a balanced intonation with the intellect, the emotional being, and the soul. To me, the pursuit must be whole and pure, and therefore I hold just as high to read music and understand theory and harmony, as I do to feel the emotion and simplistic beauty of a single note and a pulse. I hear often polyphonic counterpoint that gets insanely complex, but I try and spend the time to filter it down to the root of the message I am trying to hear. I hold in my heart to be a composer on par with being a doctor or a dedicated public servant of peace, or anything else that takes a lifetime of love and devotion to unfurl all the lovely details :-)

I also think that while there are many levels of intellect on this planet (not all brains are equal!) I feel that every soul is 100% equal and every soul has a real and valid message to speak about in this world. So here is how I judge music:

1. it must not sound synthetically wrong (i.e. bad performances with bad samples leaving a message not intended by the composer)
2. it must speak of truth to the composer (i.e. if a song speaks of truth on some level it is valid, no matter how intellectual or cheesy, but Kenny G with his facade of .... something... needs to be incinerated haha)
3. there is a certain amount of dues that must be paid by the composer to have my full respect. Dues can be found in many ways, it generally comes from someone REALLY trying hard, so very hard, for an extended time, to understand the world around them enough to have something prophetic to say about existence or the human condition

After that, to me, all music is valid and there is no style or complexity requirements to make good music in my book ;-)

At the end of the day, if you feel music and you write it and it speaks truth to you, you are a composer

[James Semple]

I went to a composer's seminar in London yesterday where showreels were played in front of everyone and disected. In my opinion the quality was very high and many of them were professionals but every single composer felt absolutely terrified and intimidated by the quality of the others' works. I'm not shy and I really was very nervous throughout.

There's a great quote in "On the Track" (I think) where some great composer says that they all have spent time under the piano feeling sick because they're not good enough. This quote has really helped me whenever I begin to doubt myself. I hope it helps others on here.

[Lori Sweeney]

That's a great quote and I shall not forget it. I suppose that is why I've always been encouraged to play and listen to other composers works. It seems everyone has their own style or flair for composing but without experimenting other forms of composition, it may eventually start to all sound the same, no? Of course one must be true to their best attributes, but it does not mean they cannot grow by learning from others. I would be terrified if someone disected my music too! They would say "Ummmmm...." Actually I really don't think I want to know WHAT they might say.

[Andrew Gleibman]

One of great composers (Xenakis if I remember well) said: Two things I require from a composer. He (she) should a) invent and b) astonish me. Most great composers do invent and astonish listeners. The question is who are the listeners and what they get with the astonishment.

They may get a philosophical enlightening, a political motivation or de-motivation, beautiful fairy-tale images, empty-mindness of dull rhythms or song words, joy and desire to dance and sing, beautiful nature images, strong and painful emotions etc. A composer, just like a writer, reflects his (her) own world and feelings of this kind.

So I think a composer should:

a) Well understand what is the thing he (she) is inventing. This can be a new harmony, a writing technique, new instrument combination, new form etc, no matter what is the level of education.

b) Be astonished (inspired and affected) by his (her) own music.

In this case there is a chance to feel oneself a composer and to attract the listeners.

[Lori Sweeney]

That is so true Andrew. I just had a similar conversation with a friend regarding not just what astonishes or moves a listener but how and why people associate imagery to certain music. Is it inherent or suggestive? I suppose it really doesn't matter either way, as long as the listener is affected in some manner.

[Lori Sweeney]

Thanks for the reply Chris. I'd like to add that you appear to have quite the setup going on for composing! What's up with the picture where your head is taped up? Do you talk too much or something ha ha? I like your Kenny G comment although someone somewhere enjoys his music right? I will say though that whether I enjoy a certain genre or not, I have great respect for performers, songwriters, composers, etc. no matter what type of music they are involved with. The last line of your comment is brilliant! Anyone can HEAR music, but not everyone can FEEL it.

[Lori Sweeney]

Well after what you said Anne, I've come to this conclusion. There is no definitive answer to my question. To analogize your point, I can cook, but I don't walk around calling myself a chef. So I suppose it is left up to the individual to define what they consider "what makes a composer a composer?" Yes we can all be many things and whether one considers themselves a composer, mother, wife, former business owner, former this or that, it is all left to the perspective of how others perceive "what a composer is." The other conclusion I've reached from this discussion from all the input provided is that it doesn't really matter what makes someone "entitled." It's how passionate you are about getting there and how deserving YOU think you are of that title. I think I am a composer, but I do not make that my title, because that is not my profession. Your point is quite valid and so is John's and Chris's and everyone else that shared their opinions, so again, it's all about perspective. Thanks everyone for your input, knowledge, opinions, stories, and advice!

[Patrik Ohlsson]

Nowadays people composing music tend to call themself producers. Atleast in other genres than the classic. I beleive you're a composer if you feel like one, dedicated and interested in what you're doing. I don't have any interest at all in formal titles.

[Norbert Oldani]

Good advice!

Andrew Gleibman said:

One of great composers (Xenakis if I remember well) said: Two things I require from a composer. He (she) should a) invent and b) astonish me. Most great composers do invent and astonish listeners. The question is who are the listeners and what they get with the astonishment.

They may get a philosophical enlightening, a political motivation or de-motivation, beautiful fairy-tale images, empty-mindness of dull rhythms or song words, joy and desire to dance and sing, beautiful nature images, strong and painful emotions etc. A composer, just like a writer, reflects his (her) own world and feelings of this kind.

So I think a composer should:

a) Well understand what is the thing he (she) is inventing. This can be a new harmony, a writing technique, new instrument combination, new form etc, no matter what is the level of education.

b) Be astonished (inspired and affected) by his (her) own music.

In this case there is a chance to feel oneself a composer and to attract the listeners.

[Fredrick zinos]

Possibly the term “composer” broadly applies to anyone who attempts to communicate through the medium of music. The term composer applies equally well to the creator of an ephemeral singular improvisation and the creator of a tightly crafted work that is painstakingly reduced to writing.

Composing, as opposed to unimproved improvisation,  to a greater or lesser degree takes into  cognizants  some organizational  principles that have the sole objective of increasing the chance that whoever is listening to the  music will have the musical, psychological, emotional and visceral experience the composer intended .

Simple short pieces may require less complex organizational structure but the structure is there none-the-less. Schubert’s “little songs” endure not only because the melodic shapes force us to respond, but because the organizational structure is as hard as granite.

As to confidence in your own music, I would suggest that when you are writing you know perfectly well which parts of the composition are the essence of what you are trying to communicate and which parts are less than inspired or even competent. Perhaps these passages are sonic connective tissue to get you from point A to point B. How hard do you work to make that connective tissue viable and consistent with the rest of the piece?

Most composers are indeed terrified at having others, particularly musicians, listen to their new opus for fear that the integrity of the piece be found suspect; the weakness of which the conscientious composer is well aware. I think that composers who view their work-product with any degree of objectivity are always fearful that the seams show and that keen ears and minds will discern exactly how much of the new work is crafted inspiration and how  much is blue smoke and mirrors.  If memory serves, I believe it was Tchaikovsky who commented that when he heard his own music all he heard were the compositional flaws.

Suppose you develop an interesting and useful melody, or harmonic structure or rhythmic pulse. How hard do you work at revising it, pruning it, shaping it so that it is really what you want it to be?  Look at the 45 pages of sketches for the main theme of LVBs 5^th symphony 2^nd movement.. 45 pages of editing, changing, trimming, and perfecting for one melody- and this was no small talent, this was Beethoven.  If Beethoven had to work that hard to craft a single musical line, how much harder would we have to work to produce anything even moderatly interesting?

But when you figuratively or actually put pen to manuscript paper or improvise on your instrument, you are a composer. The question is, are you a good one?  That question can be objectively answered by asking another question: Do people honestly respond to your music as you intended?

BTW I believe it was Diagilev who said to Ravel “Astonish me.” I find it interesting that Xenaxis made astonishment an essential ingredient in music and newness the other. I’m not sure I would fully agree. For example, Bach’s music is always astonishing; it creates the dictionary elements of astonishment, i.e., wonder, amazement and surprise. But how he produces those effects is not dependant on “new” compositional techniques. Indeed much of his music relies on harmonic, melodic and rhythmic devices that were already a century old during his lifetime so it is hardly “new” in the sense Xenaxis may have meant it.

Astonishment is an interesting word.. and not chosen lightly. The attributes are almost purely emotional, not intellectual. But the curious fact is that without the intellectual undergirding that supports the musical structure, the emotional content is unfocused and the entire piece in danger of collapse under the weight of its own inconsistencies.

 

Almost no one can do this on a continuing basis, which is perhaps why Hindemith commented that anyone who claimed to be a composer is boasting.