A New Incendiary

[Mark Nicol]

Seeing as certain kindly people have sought to quell the recent conflagration caused by this critter, I thought I would throw a new incendiary in the mix. I see that we Westerners are resuming our ongoing dance of conviviality with our Middle Eastern friends, vis a vis youtube and certain hoedowns that have even taken on in Sydney. So this leads me to kind of ruminate upon the essence of the whole little fiasco:

Can't say that I've ever written anything directly political, insofar as musical ciphers go, but I did pen a minuscule triptych as an ode to religious ridiculousness - something to do with the ancient world, hum? It was motivated by a request to harmonise a certain traditional ditty for a serious music student, and, a certain feeling of disdain for the whole project in hand, you can see that things got a bit out of hand - kind of relevant to our current imbroglio.

Perhaps the youtube video will make the sad joke a bit more obvious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA7Wmf6n-AY&feature=plcp

Beyond my paltry offerings, who do we nominate for penning the most powerful political essays, satires, in music?

Mark Nicol

[Raymond Kemp]

Friendly WARNING!

In this forum, we may extol the virtues of our own political and/or religious views but never trash that of others.

Live and let live or, the discussion board will be closed and/or deleted.

End of story.........it's not up for debate.

-

Raymond Kemp (forum administrator)

[Bob Porter]

It is easy to push peoples' buttons. I know folks who do so, and enjoy it. It's hard to be meaningful. Freedom of speech is not absolute. Sex and religion seem to be topics too hot for folks to handle. And put them together..... 

[Mark Nicol]

I greatly appreciate the valuable service run by the administrators of Composers Forum, and I respect your right of censorship. I will abide by those terms.

Mark Nicol.

Raymond Kemp said:

Friendly WARNING!

In this forum, we may extol the virtues of our own political and/or religious views but never trash that of others.

Live and let live or, the discussion board will be closed and/or deleted.

End of story.........it's not up for debate.

-

Raymond Kemp (forum administrator)

[Mark Nicol]

Bob,

Much as you may think so, I have absolutely no interest, whatsoever, in pushing people's buttons. You may want to look up the names, careers, and the histories of people like Pico Della Mirandola, Morelly, La Mettrie, Savronala, and push beyond a student's reckoning of what was at stake in the Reformation/Counter-Reformation, and Enlightenment. If we were not, in the West, lucky enough to live in an ostensibly Secular State, hard fought for and died for by many of the champions of Reformation and Enlightenment values, then none of us in the West would be enjoying the fruits of liberty and freedom of speech that we do. Nor would we be enjoying the fruits of the Industrial Revolution, because the proscriptive decrees that affected Copernicus and Galileo were omnipresent, and would have also killed off the scientific revolution that begat modern science and technology.

Behind what you may see as facetious stirring, there is a very serious person here, who has spent the equivalent of 11 unpaid working years writing about human cultural evolution, our pending ecological crisis, and of ideological, political, economic, and educational means to create a better world for all creatures living upon this planet. Those who agitate for change, and agitate very strongly, they are never going to be soft and fuzzy in action , nor, hopefully, soft and fuzzy in cogitation.

Believe me, Bob, I want to see a final end to religious warring upon this planet - not just because it is a travesty, but because it should also be seen as being embarrassingly mindless, and because it also diverts energies away from far more important things that all human beings should be attending to. But this warring will not end, not ever - I guarantee you, simply by patronising the outlooks of the ancient world. 

One of the great double-edged blades begat by Enlightenment philosophy was the ideal of 'intellectual liberalism'. It may help us cut a swathe towards the truth. But it also allows us to frame and conform to 'liberal conceptions', to ideas that may be freely conceived, but which have no correlation with or concurrence with imperious natural facts. Within the thinking of modern Western science, there is no confutation of imperious natural order in nature - we earnestly seek just the natural facts. But in the domain of religious thinking, quite naturally enough, man has always, primarily, framed his thinking around what he wants to believe, what offers egoistic promise, rather than around what appears to be the natural truth. And I say this as a profoundly religious person, but, as one who would have no 'truck' with theism. (Nonetheless, I admire the position of Kant - scrupulously honest.) 

The whole testament of the ancient world, anguished and struggling as it was, was one where, in retrospect, we might have looked back and seen the horrendous price that we paid for abiding by wishfully and egoistically conceived doctrinaire ideologies: the compact between the ancient autocrat and priest was paramount. Australia's culture is, in action, quite secular. But, almost universally in the West, the reasoning and values enshrined in Reformation and Enlightenment thinking have been lost, forgotten. And, the vacuity of atheist existentialism/nihilism contributing, now so many in the West want to re-run the reel of indulgent, wishful thinking. Via the tenets of pure liberal thinking, intellectual egalitarianism, this dangerous ideological regression is given quiet approval. 

It might pay to get over the personality thing Bob, especially as you have no real read there. Just focus on the job at hand, and try working a lot, lot harder - as a thinker, as a musician. Democracy lets everyone have a say, the Internet is the most democratic forum conceivable. But only the most conscientious search for the truth, or expression, can rise above that convivial domain where, 'for now we see darkly'.

In short, if you thought I was just trying to be facetious, re my posting or the Christmas Cards collection, you are living in that world of grave under-estimation which may well suit generic indolence. My best friend is an ardent Christian, but he understands my position, intuitively, very well. At heart you are a nice person Bob, but there are many tiers to the sophisticated moral being, and moral action becomes much, much more complex. Moral life is only simple - for the simple.

Best wishes,

Mark Nicol.

Bob Porter said:

It is easy to push peoples' buttons. I know folks who do so, and enjoy it. It's hard to be meaningful. Freedom of speech is not absolute. Sex and religion seem to be topics too hot for folks to handle. And put them together..... 

[Bob Porter]

The virtual "pat on the head, now run along little boy" tone of your post was clear even to an intellectual inferior like me.

Suffice to say that you used the phrase "religious ridiculousness" without explaining it. I, and from the sound of it, Ray misunderstood you.

I didn't explain my post very well, so you misunderstood it.

However, I am not about to write a long diatribe about anything and then try to back it up with the names of several theories, composers, writers, and historians. Almost nobody cares. I realize that in the academic world everything has to be referenced and footnoted( not without fraud, on occasion), but this is a general forum.

It may come as a surprise to you that I care about the welfare of the planet. That I lament lack of understanding among peoples. That I fear that the distortion of core beliefs will be our downfall.

But, my ideals are my own. I am not about to force them on anyone else. No matter how much better I may believe them to be.

The only freedom the INTERNET gives us is that we can say anything we want and not be held accountable.

 

 

[Mark Nicol]

Bob,

I don't think of you as inferior like you assume. But you need to realise your limitations just as much as I need to realise mine. I ain't gonna win any Mr. Nice Guy competition, and I realise and value the fact that you basically are. So, contrary to what I said or thought before, perhaps, when I am conversing with you and others, I should take greater note of the person and less of the subject matter at hand. Guess I was kind of brought up -'the job's important, that's the only thing that matters'. I apologise Bob, (and in the morning I'll be just as brutal as usual).

I was doing a landscaping job yesterday, money to pay for my sins, and an old guy of 70 years spent so much time to help me just because he could see I was head down, arse up. Now there's someone to sing praises to, what we call in Australia a 'real good bloke'. The piece that I wrote, Ulysses, it ain't about any grandiose self-conception. It's dedicated to my childhood best friend, a bloody larrikin and prankster - my best buddy. His wife left him and he drank himself to death. But, like Leopold Bloom, I suppose, my mate Paul is still the biggest hero of my life - and I wish he and I could have sailed the high seas together. But that's part of the great function of art, mythology, creating the vista of a utopian world.

Best wishes Bob,

Mark Nicol.

[Bob Porter]

I don't know that an apology is necessary, but it would be rude of me to not accept it.

I like a good discussion. It's hard. Especially in written form. I learn quite a bit about myself. I know my music and math thread is a little silly. I'm learning some good things. Hasn't changed my mind, though. See you in the morning.

[Mark Nicol]

Bob,

resolve is a thing of great importance. That's precisely why you project a real identity. Did you like that show "My Name's Earl"? I loved it, but can't remember the title music - couldn't have been that good - no real identity. The 2nd. movement of Shostakovich's 10th., that's like me - all sweet and subtle, never hurt a fly.

Have a good rest, you ain't got no sins.

Mark.

[Bob Porter]

I don't recall any show by that name. I grew up playing in concert bands. In college I thought some of the best music we played was Shostakovitch and Hindemith. And Nelhybel.

[Mark Nicol]

Bob,

I regret dropping so quickly out of brass brand at a young age. I was swiftly promoted to the intermediate band, and I was a terribly, terribly nervous, shy person. The band were the Australian champions, but would not compete with US calibre ones. Fredick was having a bit of a josh about a composer's funny name, and I haven't heard of Nelhybel before. Sounds like a cow, but does he have a good moo?

Mark.

[Raymond Kemp]

When one of the most prolific composers of the 20th century goes pretty well unnoticed into the 21st century, I think Fredrick has made his point. Maybe his ashes are now in outer space?

[Bob Porter]

"Trittico" was the Nelhybel piece that we played. Very fun.  I think the expressive and dynamic range of a concert band is pretty wide.