A Fugue or not a Fugue?

[Lori Sweeney]

It was suggested that I post my new piece here as opposed to my blog. I had challenged myself to write a Fugue but I'm not entirely sure if I've done it properly. Any input?

[Lori Sweeney]

Simon mentioned that you would be the man to talk to regarding this Kris and he was certainly correct. Giving advice is not arrogant. I love all music and whether I have actually written a fugue here or not, I can certainly leave this as it stands and attempt it on my next piece. I can always change my title to "Not a Fugue, But Close". So I truly thank you for the wonderful advice you took the time to give. I may have to Google a couple of the terms :) but this is how we learn I suppose.

[Jack Pickett]

Hi Lori,

It sounds more like a Partita to me - or at least reminds me of a Bach Partita I played when I was a kid.

Well done!

[Lori Sweeney]

Kris, The second I read your suggestion of Well Tempered Clavier I thought, that sounds familiar. Of course it does because I have Book ll. Mind you I haven't picked it up in 20 years so I dusted it off and took a crack at it. I played through the first 3 and recalled why I buried this book beneath the others. Difficult music that takes a lot of practice. I'm very glad that you mentioned it because it will help tremendously. And no, you did not give me the impression that my fugue is not a fugue. Besides, it doesn't matter to me if it isn't. I was the one that posed the question. I'm still quite pleased with the end result. I will attempt my next using the Bach book as a guide and if I were to follow anyone's advice on this subject, it would definitely be you. Your fugue for March's challenge is brilliant! Thank you for all of your help.

[Lori Sweeney]

I suppose it could be a Partita Jack. The dictionary defines it as an instrumental piece composed of a series of variations, as a suite. The fact that it reminds you of a Bach Partita is good enough for me! Glad you like it. Thank you!

[Lori Sweeney]

Thank you very much Jared. I took a peak at your page and I must say that I really enjoyed your piece titled Fall. Keep up the good work.

[Cody Loyd]

Are we talking about the same picardy third here?

what is your definition??

[Jack Pickett]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partita

[Cody Loyd]

I would call it a picardy third only if it is in a cadential position, otherwise it is just a borrowed chord.

I might be wrong though..

[Michael T]

I'm afraid the piece is not a fugue and nor is it contrapuntal. The piece is not entirely without merit but I implore anyone who wishes to write counterpoint to study,study, study.There is a craft of composition as well as an art.  As mentioned, Bach's 48 is as good a place to start as anywhere. Why not take one of his subjects and see if you can create a convincing countersubject to it and then go back and and see what he did.

 

[Jonathan Metz]

I would have to disagree with both Josef and Michael. I do believe it is a fugue, it does not matter whether it is polyphonic or not. One can state a theme and then state that theme in another voice without continuing a polyphonic texture in the voice that first stated the theme. That is exactly what you do in fact. There's no rule that says you can't do that. To my understanding a fugue is anything that has this general structure: Exposition--Episode--Statement--Episode--Statement and so on until the Coda (sometimes preceded by a stretto). Yours certainly has this structure, so I believe it is a fugue. I personally like the two-voice polyphonic and homophonic texture that alternate between throughout. That is to me unconventional, and therefore interesting.

You have a beautiful theme and your progressions move along very nicely. I believe what could make it sounds more like a fugue is to write out a counter-subject that would come after the statement (theme). Right now what you have going on where a counter-subject would normally go is a I chord--V chord--I chord. Can you turn those chords into a counter theme of some kind that throughout would accompany the theme as it develops? Does that make sense? Wonderful job. I really like the way you come back to the home key you established with picardy third near the end of the piece. Very energizing. 

[Michael T]

Not at all Ray, no need to apologise. I am honoured to be singled out for a special mention and I'm glad you found my statement so powerful.

However, I'm not quite sure of the point you are making. And what you mean by getting a life. Nor am I sure of what it is you think should be punishable by hanging.

Ray Kemp said:

Surely it must be a hanging offence?

Disembowelling probably a better solution. You all need to get a life.

 

Sorry Michael, I don't mean to single you out but your statement is so powerful.

 

Michael Tauben said:

I'm afraid the piece is not a fugue and nor is it contrapuntal.

 

 

[Michael T]

The structure you describe is perhaps a Rondo. A fugue is, if nothing else, polyphonic and contrapuntal.

In this day and age, why set out to write a fugue in a harmonic language that is more common in the 18th C?

One good reason would be as an academic exercise, to gain a deeper understanding of the problems and solutions found in writing good counterpoint.

Another reason would be to gain more insight into the techniques and style of the great practitioners - Bach, for one.

 

If a poet states that he/she has written say, a triolet and then doesn't repeat the lines in the places that the form dictates, then, although it may be beautiful, evocative or profound, it isn't a triolet.

 

 

Jonathan Metz said:

I would have to disagree with both Josef and Michael. I do believe it is a fugue, it does not matter whether it is polyphonic or not. One can state a theme and then state that theme in another voice without continuing a polyphonic texture in the voice that first stated the theme. That is exactly what you do in fact. There's no rule that says you can't do that. To my understanding a fugue is anything that has this general structure: Exposition--Episode--Statement--Episode--Statement and so on until the Coda (sometimes preceded by a stretto). Yours certainly has this structure, so I believe it is a fugue. I personally like the two-voice polyphonic and homophonic texture that alternate between throughout. That is to me unconventional, and therefore interesting.

You have a beautiful theme and your progressions move along very nicely. I believe what could make it sounds more like a fugue is to write out a counter-subject that would come after the statement (theme). Right now what you have going on where a counter-subject would normally go is a I chord--V chord--I chord. Can you turn those chords into a counter theme of some kind that throughout would accompany the theme as it develops? Does that make sense? Wonderful job. I really like the way you come back to the home key you established with picardy third near the end of the piece. Very energizing.