Condemnation towards computer generated music (Sample libraries and such)

[Denny Schneidemesser]

Now this is something that happens to me quite often. Have you ever been in the situation where someone asked “What are you using to create your music?”. Probably since most people aren't familiar with the technology nowadays, at least where I live. I cannot recall how many scornful looks I've received for stating that I take my Horns and Violins from an orchestra library. Most people don't even want to take a look at it because it seems totally ridicolous to them. I don't know if it's pure ignorance or the technology that most people aren't aware of. I guess it's a mix of both since people are trying to avoid it.

I highly respect the real orchestra and I would always prefer it if I had the choice, but samples became really important because they give people with lower budgets the chance to listen to their compositions. Yeah I know, that's nothing new to everyone who reads this. However, I wish more people would acknowledge that.

So how's it where you live? Well I can imagine that sample libraries are much better known and understood in states like LA, the situation in my country (Germany by the way) is stated above.

Any similar situations so far?

[Marius Amado-Alves]

No we dont. Everyone should listen to the original or Ravel's version. (This should be mandated by international law or something.) The ELP version is totally ditchable. I just listed that for completeness.

[Marius Amado-Alves]

Other works by Moussorgsky are also interesting. The most famous is the opera, Boris Gudonov (touched by Rimsky-Korsakov I think). I like it that the main character is a bass. Other works are hard to come by.

Rimsky-Korsakov's orchestral works Sherezade and Capriccio Espagnol are also a must. BTW the Capriccion is misnamed, the main theme is actually a Portuguese fandango.

Talk about too much information...

[Marius Amado-Alves]

Yeah these two albums are superb too.

[Doug Lauber]

Chris, I agree with you about the whole 'structure' idea. Chaos is NOT pretty and usually does not sound good, but I have heard very artful sound effects applied in music. If the musician is talented, any technique can be 'successful'. What is the big difference between a barking dog snippet and, say, the inclusion of a crash cymbal? I just don't see the dividing line. On the other hand, when there is a repeating loop recording, it 'feels' automatic, machine-like, and stiff. The element is cold. Sometime the repeating loop is great for conveying an austere un-feeling mood, as you might use in a film like 'Metropolis'. The sound effects on Dark Side of the Moon were well-chosen and artful. But, hey- that's just my opinion. The problem with using sampled loops in music, is that it can be a lazy way to appropriate a rhythm track or general structure. A repeating loop will always be unaffected by the surrounding 'live' tracks. The indifference will be there and it oftens becomes annoying.
In Floyd's 'Money', most people would not want to listen to the cash register sounds through the ENTIRE piece. Floyd tastefully used it just for the intro. For some, 'Rights of Spring' or the work of Berlioz sounds 'druggy', and prefer Bach and Mozart :) If Beethoven was alive today, he would incorporate sound effects, ...but maybe just for his commercial drivel sections! Peace.

[Robyn Traill]

On the topic of chaos:

Is anyone out there familiar with the album "Solomon's Daughters" by the drummer Kranklin Kiermyer featuring Pharaoh Saunders?

Simple structures holding together utter chaos. Many times left me breathless and laughing with joy.

Obviously not a loop in sight, but definitely outside the realm of conventional sounds, particularity Pharaoh.

Chris is probably pretty up on Pharaoh and late Trane, though my ears are pretty new at it.

Chris? Not wanting to draw you away from deadlines with code, but . . .!

[Graham Robb]

It always seems that the world is full of folks who know better.....of course a real orchestra is better, I've spent a big proportion of my life playing in them, but who, realistically, can afford a full orchestra for every demo session?

Marketing, business-type guys I know who are not musicians themselves but who make the decisions on the money (which always matters!) often can't tell the difference between sessions where I've used real players and situations where I've mixed in some Garageband samples, never mind real "pro" sampled sounds. And without drum loops I'd be lost!

Also, I know Austria isn't Germany, but it's close by, so you have the guys who create the Vienna Symphonic Library on your doorstep!

[Robyn Traill]

Thanks for the nudge toward Miroslav solo instruments. VEry useful indeed!

[Rob Rericha]

I have had just the opposit experience. I use real instruments and don't get much interest. Could it be because I live in Cleveland, the rock and roll and polka capital of the universe? The response to my work live is amazingly positive. But that seems to be as far as I can get it to go. And I write in several genres.

[Biochips]

All video game composers in the world and many movie composers as well use programs like Cubase and Reason to make their soundtracks. I use FL Studio for composing my music. These awesome programs are necessary for people who cannot write sheet music because they have no musical education such as myself. Writing music in software studios is a real help, saves money and the production time is faster.

[Marius Amado-Alves]

This says it all. Music software for uneducated "composers" has evolved to perfection. The rest of us who actually know how to write music must now regress their skills in order to create their mixes.

[Robyn Traill]

I'm not sure I understand. How much must you regress? I am a university educated composer. I don't feel my compositional style has changed all that much. I don't have to rely on my inner ear as much, but I sit at a piano and compose lines and harmonic structures just the same.

Uneducated composers cannot compose what you can, no matter what the software.

Exactly how does software use by others diminish you and your skills?

[Marius Amado-Alves]

This links to another thread by Simon (?), that notation software does not play our scores well enough. You got to go write pianotab or tweak the MIDI or whatever. Double trouble for us who think in staves.