How Low Can You Go?

[Shawn Patterson]

Sounds like a dance number you could try with your hot partner - or is it?

Let me pose this question to all of you.

If you do not work (or have not worked ) as a professional composer, just how far would you go to get "in" with a company/director/producer to get hired?

Would you be willing to compose ANY genre, to ANY edited picture to do this?

Would you be willing to do this if the pay was not fair or competitive? Would you work for free?

Let the talking begin ( I hope...)

Shawn Patterson

[John Doryk]

Wow!!! The silence is deafening.....

[John Doryk]

As a person who actually makes a living composing music(producers call, I score for them, they pay me, I buy milk, cheetos, gas, etc), I can say that :

1) I initially started doing some cues for free or very little

2) shortly after, I realized the only way to be valued, was to charge

3) shortly after that, realized that to get better gigs, I had to charge like I was acually worth something

Oh yeah....I practiced, studied, ate. slept, and breathed filmscoring for a very long time
I networked(bugged people) till they either gave me a break or got a restraining order on me
I worked very hard at understanding my potential clent and the industry.

I think one of the problems with this craft(as opposed to aircraft technitian, plumber, or neurosurgeon) is that there seems to be a very hesitant attitude to intern aspiring artists. I think their's a natuaral caution because of the risk of losing work to some kid with Garage band(or Acid, or a kid with a garage band on acid). In either case, I think we,who are professionals, as an industry(craft, artform) need to be willing to train, and mentor those who aspire to do this craft. At the same time, those who aspire need to understand this is a very tough,competitive business and be willing to work very hard to learn and earn their way to achieve thier goals. You wouldn't believe(or maybe you would) how many "aspiring composers" I have allowed to shadow/intern who' ve only left dissapointed or incredulous at the thought that they would actually have to "work" at this craft. Its like wanting to play piano concertos, buy the piano, and then be surprised that they can't just go out and play Carnegie hall tomorrow. "Oh", I tell them, "You're just missing one thing. 15 years of piano lessons and practice till your fingers bleed." Well, there, now I've said my piece. Or maybe I was just venting.

John Doryk
film composer
www.johndoryk.com

[Stephen Barry]

Garage Band on Acid: A Brand New Musical.....think about it! Eh, Garage Band and Acid are overrated.

[John Doryk]

Kinda like Muppets on Ice.....Only its a bunch of "rock stars" dropping acid...or dipped in acid, both might be fun to see. Seriously, those apps are both great tools. But that's what they are...tools. If you learn to be a craftsman, you learn to use those tools well, put them in your tool kit and use them when appropriate among all the other tools you have. I really wasn't picking on loop based editing or music creation per se. It's the "composers" who can't figure out how I'm creating such convincing orchestrations with tools like those only to realize I'm using all kinds of resources(including live musicians....wow!) and that it takes work and is a developped skill, not just a quick technological trick.

[Stephen Barry]

Of course! If you have the wide variety of tools at your arsenal, use them all rather than just one or two. It makes for better music.

[Chris Alpiar]

Hey Shawn, great question!

I am in the boat right now doing exactly that. I will tell you that I will not ever work for free unless it was a student film that was REALLY extraordinary and I just like that person and want to help them. Or possibly for politics/human welfare I would contribute without charge.

I have been playing and writing for my whole life (am 39 now) and I am just this last few years working on changing my craft from jazz and stage theater music and crazy people music into marketable film score music. I don't have my gun FULLY loaded yet and so I am not ready to move back to LA and really really push, and so I hang out in Dayton working locally and spending time building my reel without having to face the "wretched hive of scum and villany" ;)

I am a professional composer tho and I make all my money from music. And I just upgraded my studio with a new quad xeon mac pro with a 30" apple cinema display, so I am making it work, just not too much notoriety yet in the film arena. COMING SOON!

But meanwhile I will score a GOOD student or indie film at a hundred bucks a minute on local productions. It should be 3000 per minute and when i was still in LA I got paid average 3 to 5k per song for broadway style stage theater compositions (someone else did lyrics, I just put it to music and scored it with giga and some live instruments and recorded the vocals). The songs were all 3.5-5 mins in length and i did over 30 in like 2 years, 2.5 years

The money is doable at 3k / minute easily if you know how to present and market yourself and your music is on the right level, and you get some lucky breaks ;)

Hope it helps

[Dana Detrick-Clark]

I have varied feelings on it, as there are pros and cons depending upon each unique situation.

My very first score job was for an independent videogame developer who I knew had basically no budget at all, but found a way to pay me my small fee through installments. Our contract gave me a lot of room to grow with him, should the game get picked up by a bigger company. I had no problem giving him my best for very little, and getting the credit on my resume for it.

My second one, where I was still feeling like I should keep my pricing lower while I gained cred: I signed away far too much, and made peanuts. Unfortunately it was library, and as luck would have it, an ad agency in my city ended up using one of the cues I created this past year. So, before the holidays, I was hearing my piece on the major local networks at least 4-5 times a day, and knowing I wasn't ever going to see a penny from it. It was a HUGE reminder that there is value at every level (and that I shouldn't be so naive when I sign contracts).

I learned fairly early on doing voice over work that when your rates go up, you do shut out a certain market (mainly looking for bargains), which can be scary at first, if you're used to getting paid by them. But you open yourself to a new market that will focus on issues besides money (not that budget isn't always an issue).

I do have a clause that allows me to turn down work if I find it offensive in any way, so to answer that part of the query, there ARE things I won't do. And I think that's a good thing, because it focuses your sights on your ideal client more.

Sorry if I got too wordy here! Great question!

[Adrian Ellis]

Hey John,

Great post as always. I had the GREAT fortune to be selected as one of three Canucks to participate in the Guild of Canadian Film Composers Apprentice/Mentor program last year. My apprenticeship lasted 6 weeks (full time, intensive days!) and it is without question one of the most important and rewarding things I've ever done in my career as an emerging film composer. Once I was selected, I interviewed with my mentor, and it lasted 3 hours. He really wanted to be sure I would get what he would show me in the coming weeks - like you, he'd had some disappointing experiences in the past. If I had to sum up my experience (beyond profound, brutally challenging, scary, fun, life changing) I would say that it had the effect of a complete mental rewiring. It was brutal and honest, and I loved it. I agree - mentoring is one of the most important activities to strengthen and maintain the industry, filling it with educated composers who know the true value of film music.

Cheers,

Adrian

[Ray Kemp]

How did I miss this.
I do not work (or have not worked) as a professional composer, probably because my end product is to suit me and therefore it is a bonus that others may enjoy some of my work, but!

Yes I would try any genre, to any edited picture, but! not for free.

In past years I've arranged midfile backing tracks for individual performers. (professional karaoke)
I couldn't charge them an hourly rate because they wouldn't pay it. So now when the phone rings, if I already have the track in the library they can have it but I won't start from scratch on a new track other than for my own use.

I know there are some young composers out there willing to give a few minutes away in the hope of getting signed up. I don't think they should do it because when they then ask for money another wannabe is going to be standing behind them giving it away.