Creating tempo, sync points, punches and streamers

[Chris Alpiar]

Not that many folks are probably using punches and streamers today, but what technique are you using to first determine tempo(s) /meter(s) and then sync points for hits etc? I wish I was still using DP since they have the only decent computerized system that I know of for making those suggestions. While I have tape machines with SMPTE I generally just capture and encode video/film as quicktime and then import to Cubase. I have always used my gut (and a mighty one it is!) to feel out tempo and meter and then change it manually if hits dont make sense, but I am looking for a defined process on how to do this better.

[Chris Merritt]

Yo! The tempo / feel of the cue is the most important aspect. It should be a gut decision. Then you pick the 3 or so main points and try to hit those. I use sonars click to tempo. I will decide the tempo, then click the mouse in tempo and it tells me what that tempo is. I may modify the tempo up until I record audio. Once I have 2 or more audio tracks (guitar, vocals, etc.) I'm stuck with that tempo. Technically, Sonar allows you to change the tempo even with audio, and you can have it all line up, but really, time stretching algorithms degrade a lot like mp3. So I try to avoid that...

[Herman Witkam]

Fixed tempo isn't neccesarily the way to go. Rubato/free tempo might work as well. Music might end up sounding more organic, and more fitting to the screen, since while playing along on the keyboard, you can adjust to the picture sync without havig to do numerous tempo changes. Just a thought...

[Mauricio Domene]

I prefer to do it like you: I try to feel the tempo of a scene and make it work with a few adjustmants.

To me the most important is the mood of a cue and not if I hit exactly a frame. If the mood is right no one will catch a missing hit.

My first post here in this comunity. Greatings from Brazil to all :-)

[Chris Alpiar]

Unless you are working with live musicians and then rubato is a nightmare

[Chris Alpiar]

I generally write with lots or at least some tempo and meter changes and while I love sequencing my goal is that all of my music will be played by live orchestras given a budget. So while of course gut must determine the overall tempo I am looking for more nitty gritty info. In the old days before sequencers (or so I am told) it was one of the engineer's jobs was to attend spotting to make notes of cue start/stops, lengths, and hits and would deliver the timecode with all the nuances, as requested by the composer. But those days are long gone I imagine, so I guess I am looking for a tool that assists with it. As I mentioned DP has some great tools, where once you determine the tempo you just follow allong the timeline and mark in where you want hits and it makes suggestions as to auxilliary tempos, meters and such. It actually even adds in punches and streamers to your video for conducting live orchestra against your sequence. Alas my mac is 90% retired now and so I am hoping someone has some cool utility for windows :)

[Chris Alpiar]

absolutely i agree with you Mauricio =) However sometimes, depending on the type of film, exact hits within the music can add tremendous impact, and when that effect is attempted and missed even by a little bit, it ends up destroying the scene rather then helping it. By the way welcome to this forum, I miss Brazil a lot I hope to come and visit again soon!

[Adrian Ellis]

Hey Chris,

I agree with Mr. Merritt regarding the gut being the best judge of tempo. I find that you'll be able to tell a good editor if you watch the scenes and find yourself being able to easily clap a tempo to the action. I find that with tempo mapping in Cubase, I wing it... but if I have a feel for the tempo it usually (somewhat) slots in. It might take some extra bars here and there to make it fit. I love the idea of rubato and how that could result in more natural performance, but GOOD GOD that's nightmarish if you want to be able to go in and edit with any sophistication afterwards. So, I always use tempo maps. You can always nudge the tempo of the performance (tempo track in cubase) afterwards, adding in rises and falls, and proper dynamics. But, tbh, I had yet to find a way to balance that with hitting exact cues... stuff gets shifted around and you end up wanted to pull out your hair.

Cheers!

[Herman Witkam]

Well...It depends on the musicians. I'm currently working on a project for the national film festival here, where the ensemble will be playing my score along with the screen in a live situation (instead of being taped to sync). The conductor has some sync points to work to, and about half the piece is rubato, and it's working fine so far. The ensemble btw consists of 3 guitars, bass guitar, violin, piano, flute & tuned percussion/drums.

Certain types of ensembles lend themselves better for rubato/free tempo playing of course, but I have found that it can add so much more life & expression, compared to fixed tempo. I do use live instruments with rubato, but I perform/record a lot of instruments myself.

[ron meza]

i use DP and its Chunks feature for my scoring. each chunk is a cue with its own properties (time, key, tempo etc...) and i can't work without a click.

[John walter]

I have always used cubase and quicktime , and find the marker track and tempo track quick and easy to use, just lately i had some vocals missing a cue and just slipped them into Celemony plugin and a quick quantize and there they were bang on. What luxury... having never had to work with tapes and timecode and suchlike I just don't know what the problems were.

[Chris Alpiar]

Ron do you use the tool that you input tempo and hits you want to make and it will give you suggestions for meter changes and such?

[phil Kelly]

Chris:

Although for most of my career ( in the infamous Mesozoic Era ) when projection was available ( not always often ), someone ( the music editor ,if your budget permitted one -otherwise you or the film editor )would punch and scribe a work print according to your specifications.

In the late 80s ,however, a program called "Auricle" showed up which among many other features could add electronic punches and streamers to a VCR of the work print.

Heres a link to this program with molto info:

http://www.auricle.com/