Music - for love or money

[Ray Kemp]

I've only become involved in musicians/composers forums since the beginning of this year. I've spent 40 years performing as a mercenary musician. (playing and singing covers). Give the people what they want when they want it. I compose and present my tunes here for one reason only. My satisfaction. My obsession.
Here and in some other forums there seems to be two main types of member. Those who already make a living from composing and recording Film/TV/Gaming cues or epics. Secondly those wishing to make a living wage from these genres. I listen to all the cues and epics based on Williams, Zimmer, etc. etc. and think apart from varying levels of samples and recording skills they all sound the same. Timpani rolls, Wagner Horns etc. New members join the East West forum and present their epic for approval, I listen and think, yeah I'm sure I heard that yesterday. Is it rude to tell some aspiring writer "that's been done to death try something else". I believe all truly original composing is achieved by by doing it for yourself and if someone wants to pay for it, that's a bonus. Am I in the real world.

Ray

[Ray Kemp]

Phil,

I've listened to your music a few times and I think it's great. It's absolutely what I'd love to be able turn back the clock and do. even 'just' as a singer, voice being my first instrument.
My all time favourite song to sing being 'Ebb Tide'. Don't spread it around but I'm a Vic Damone fan :)

Ray

[phil Kelly]

Not tot denigrate anyone here, but Williams *IS* a composer with a wide range of approaches to call upon .

Zimmer might be a "composer" of sorts, but to my ear much of his work seems to be accomplished through a network of on staff "apprentices" who enable him to crank out such a large body of work. ( In the 50s /60s advertising was done in a similar manner -and they were called "jingle mills" then ) He's obviously one hell of a salesman :)

Actually , I prefer the work of other writers like Thomas Newman,
Bruce Broughton, Howard Shore, and the like ( along with the past and in some cases current greats like Goldsmith, Bernstein ( Elmer that is ) ,Friedhofer, Schifrin, and Dave Grusin.

[Deborah Young]

The art vs. commerce discussion frequently comes up in relation to various art forms (visual art, literature, etc.). One school of thought is that serious artists aren't concerned about making money. But even serious artists have to eat. What better way to get money for food that engage in the art that is your passion?

I hope to make money with my music, and if I'm inventive enough (regarding a business plan), I will. The truth is that success will depend mostly on my abililty to market myself (and give "THE MAN" at least some of what he wants [with my own special twist]).

Ray: If you see this, I don't know that sausage is an apt metaphor for film music tradition, the innards of which are hopefully not as unhealthy.

[Deborah Young]

I don't know that sausage is an apt metaphor for film music traditions, the innards of which are hopefully not as unhealthy.

[phil Kelly]

Deborah ( and all others who've been discussing this ) :

" making sausage" definitely had a semantic meaning to the type of work I used to do in the jingle industry. In general , you were tasked with coming up with a limited melodic fragment that supported the clients slogan ( usually in 5 to 10 seconds ), could be used in many musical styles and situations, and if really successful , would imbed itself in the collective audiences memory with sufficient repitition ( much to their collective annoyance usually ) :)

OTOH, traditional film music ( while still a genre of demand
music ) came from a response to the visuals , and /or dramatic situation you were supporting. These days, with loops, ProTools and other sampling and sequencing devices the rule rather than an auxiliary tool, the producer /directors of today seemed to have become satisfied with the " generic carpet music " approach in many ( if not most ) situations. Dramatic support along with melodic scoring seems much less in evidence these days.

Therefore, I'm firmly in the camp that feels there *IS* a lot of repetition and sameness in todays film music, due to the above.

[Herman Steyn]

I agree that many people write similar music. I think this is largely due to the fact that they (and myself included sometimes) are trying to match what is sometimes expected. It is a difficult compromise. We want to show that we can do what is required. I do however agree that to be noticed is to explore your own artistic nature and match that to what a producer might want (fuse the two) but this is hard and a delicate balance. How to do this?

[phil Kelly]

To make the line even finer:
The purpose of film scoring is largely to support the visuals and the dialog
and unless a specific area is left open ( also relatively
free of sound effects ) , and the music is intended to carry the audio , it should not draw attention to itself ( thus away from the picture -or story )

The usual way to make your score stand out is by creating a different overall audio scenario -without drawing undue attention to the score itself!

truly a paradox!